Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

:mad:

I've been trying to hold it in, but I can't I'm pizzed off!

I've been a fraud victim of 2 dealers in 15 months.

I know most of you are aware of my experience last year. I was ripped off by a dealer in Atlanta. He managed to get about 10-15 people before he dissappeared. We were able to locate him and he was eventually caught. The current amount he owes me according to the courts is just under $75,000. Plus legal costs. For more on this story see the BAD BUSINESS section under Bill Harris.

Now for my National Marine experience.

After my experience with a small and unproven dealer went to hell, I decided my next deal would only be with a LARGE and PROVEN dealer.

Enter National Marine.

Last Spring I was in the market just as NM opened the Ft. Laud. location. I had been to all of the larger dealers in S. Fl., but NM had top notch inventory. I went to the warehouse in early April. What a great facility and nice selection! I was met by a nice salesman and shown the in-stock selection. Nothing I really could afford, but wait, they just took a '96 'Gun on trade. I was shown pics and made an appointment to see it up close on a Sunday. It was a beauty and completely redone in '03. It had 675 Chiefs, new XR's, everything. Asking price was a bit high, but it needed nothing.
I made an offer, contingent on a Myco trailer included, and it was accepted. I did a credit app.(good, but not great) and waited. 3-4 days later they are having a little trouble as I don't have much provable income(rest. bizz) but they will get it handled. Long story short, I jump through several hoops and still wait. Just when I've given up, Bill Hionas calls and says the "deal is done". I'm amped! I pick the boat up on Sat. May, 8th and go immediately to the water(trailer not ready yet???). Boat is everything I want and more. Two weeks later, word comes from NM, Home Saving has reversed and refused my loan! I'm pizzed! I tell 'em to K.M.AZZ, get it done. No way I'm bringin' it back now. Two weeks of legal talk and B.S. I'm ready to drive it thru the front door. I tell them to shove it I want my $$$ back and I'll go elsewhere.
Sunday afternoon(ya' SUNDAY) Bill calls and says "'HE' got 2nd National to buy my loan". Could I please re-sign? No way, I just want out of this crazy deal. He offers me 6 months no payments, 6 months warranty and a guaranteed trade in value for 12 months. No brainer, take the deal.Three months later I get a call from the previous owner, boat is still, his and NOT paid off. His bank is trying to repo it, and I may be screwed! National is gone, banks are no help(Skyy Bank has purchased 2nd Nat.), and I'm about to lose my down $$ and have an open loan for something I don't have. My attorney talks to his attorney, they talk to the banks. I'm caught between a rock and a boulder.
After 30 days of playing musical warehouses, I HAVE TO SURRENDER THE BOAT. I return it to the original owner in return for his help fighting my bank loan.It is now for sale through a dealer in S. Fla. Great boat, I'd buy it again if I didn't have an outstanding loan on it already!!!
Now I'm out about $25,000 more for down $$ and legal fees. That's $100k plus in 15 months and nothing to show for it. Ten years of savings WIPED OUT!! I'm done with pleasure boats, this industry SUCKS!!! Racing only for me from now on.
I won't buy another pleasure boat until someone does something for me. If a so-called "reputable dealer"(or private person) can help a guy with not much down $$ left, and little provable income I'll consider buying again. Otherwise, see you at the races.

Sorry to B ITCH so much, but I needed to vent.

Greg

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Damn Greg, that sucks! I had no idea you were sucked in by the NM vortex. Twice in a row just ain't right. :mad:

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

I'm surprised you haven't shot anybody yet. "Sorry to hear this" seems pretty lame. Don't know quite what else to say. Hope luck turns your way for a change.

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Damn what a bummer. Vent all you want.

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

You have to file charges againest NM and the owners, etc.. These things don't happen by themselves.

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Greg as you know i myself has takin it in the shorts by national as well but for only $5000.00 which still hurt. I'm sorry to hear about what ya went threw. OSO member Dave P is a VP for Essex Credit and i'm sure would do anything he could to help you out. I'm thinkin about selling my 1998 29 twin small blaock scarab of your interested. Rumor has it he may be interested in selling his 36 Concept as well. If interested let me know.

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Are these criminals going to jail?

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

The word "Postal" is a light take on what I would do. An eye for an eye....cash is king. :mad: I was screwd by a dealer once and said never again, big or small. Funny thing is...I broke even on repairs and court costs with the settlement and he rolled down a hill on a tractor. Let s just say I am still here. :eek: :D

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Greg ,Sorry to here this if I can help let me know .
Your good friend Dave

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

[QUOTE=Formula Outlaw]I'm surprised you haven't shot anybody yet. QUOTE]
My first thought.

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

That sucks Greg!!! Hopefully that guy will get a long time in jail to think about phucking people over! At least you still have your girlfriend :p :D

If she leaves you, your dog dies and your truck breaks down, you will be highly qualified to write country music!

I'll buy you a drink in Miami if I see you, hang in there,

Craig

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Sorry to hear your story.. I would have said come take your boat back then. What motors or drives? I'll be damn someone must have stolen the damn things. :mad:

But yes I agree there are too many lier's and thieves in this industry. I 've been screwed before but not for as much money as you

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Dude, Cant you keep all funds in escrow until title has cleared and bears your name?

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Greg -

Sorry to hear about that ! That sucks...Hope things start going your way...

All the best,
Hans

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Man sorry to hear you got screwed again. Hopefully someone will be getting lubed up in a jail cell for all this heartache :(

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Sorry to hear Greg... I was taken by Bill for 3 Boats over 250,000 dollars
Lucky I got things squared away with the banks.....

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

I know a guy that lost $90k as a deposit on a boat tha twas to be built :eek: :mad:

On the finance end I was told stories about guys getting financed with 585+ FICOS's, is there any truth to that or an exaggeration? I guess enough $$ down does the talking :rolleyes:

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

when the bank is involved with the scams, they probably will take any credit score... :rolleyes:

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Greg,

I give you a lot of credit for not killing anyone. I have a few insurance companies and one ******* that owe me a pretty large sum, but you definately have me beat by a long shot. I still hold out hope that I'll get the $ eventually, but nothing sucks worse than having your good name damaged and your savings completely wiped out by some *******.

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Thanks for the thoughts. All of the legals are in the hands of a lawyer. I'm not just throwing in the towel.

105, I wasn't a 585 FICO, but I'm not a 750 either. I believe there was some real shady deals being brokered by National. I can afford the boat, but other stories I heard I'm not sure about the people.

Actually, the lawyers don't think I should tell this story quite yet. I am just too pissed to sit here quietly any longer.

Greg

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

why dont we thow a party during the miami boat show with bill as the guest of honor!!! then we can get out the oso bat!!! remember the baracks scene in full metal jacket? every body gets a turn!!!

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

this whole thing is absolutly insane,,. this guy is gonna get rung out,,, u just cant do this to people... someone will f-kin snap and ace the f-k..
if it was me i dont know if i could contain,, i would go nutty..
at some point it aint just the money anymore u are f-kin with my life my families life and u are gonna be DONE>>
oh it makes me soo freakinmad..
it not only ruines it for other dealers who we hope are legit.. seem to be far and few between,,, i hate to say we need to get it regulated but it think the best way is some gas matches and couple of bats.. U were in business!
its bs the banks should definatly take the hit here not the customer,,
sue the banks too... screw em all class action everyone get together pool the attorney costs and ram em.. if a bank let them slap a lien on top of another they should freakin eat it they didnt do thier job.. title search ?? hmm too easy or are they in on it.. prob the latter..

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

When I gave it back it would have had 2 350ci,s and alpha 1,1 and no trailor!!!

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

they wouldnt have got it back the freakin bellows went bad and if sunk somehow and insurance can deal with it.

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

that is being too nice, i would give it back stripped to the hull and sitting on the ground in the banks parking lot... maybe then they will start to see the problem with what they are doing.... did i mention i would set it a blaze too.... :mad:

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

I really considered all of the above, but the owner was in the same mess with his "new" Cigarette. I really didn't figure screwing him with his bank was gonna make me feel any better.

Now, NM, Bill, and the banks can all BLOW ME. I'm not done with this. I just wanna see the "good" side of this industry for ONCE!

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Brother, how I DO feel your pain. I may not have been taken as bad as you have, but as old Foghorn Leghorn would say;

"Boy---I...I say boy, I shor know what....I say, I shor know what yor talkin' bout Son!" :(

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Sorry to hear Kaama. There are a lot of us.
I just wanna get it out so I feel like I'm doing something. I've(and a few others it seems) kept it quiet for so long I'm afraid I won't ever tell it all.

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Wow! :( That's unbelievable. I hope things work out somehow and you get some justice from these individuals.
Dan

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Man greg my mess is not near as bad as yours, but believe me you are not alone, and it is not just boating. Before I got hurt my credit was over 700, now I'm afraid to even look. Its depressing, and angering to say the least, I can certainly understand your desire to speak out.

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Thanks Bern for the plug.

MY OFFER to all OSO members: Feel free to call me (732-899-7886) to ask any questions about making a purchase that includes financing. You don't have to use my office for me to answer questions for you. It is way to easy to get screwed - I.E. National Marine.

I would always recommend research your financing! Also - make sure title searches are ALWAYS performed no matter what! It is our policy to NEVER allow a dealer to make a payoff on a boat - WE MAKE THE PAYOFF or no deal.

There are plenty of reputable marine finance companies out there that will finance you as well as protect you. Essex, Scott, Offshore, Russo, etc... are very reputable finance companies.

If the dealer makes a sweet deal with you with all kinds of caviats (no payments, trade in guarantee, etc.... its B*ll****)

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

I sure miss her...

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Greg, WOW what a shame that there are people out there that do this to other humans. You make sure you keep the board up to speed. It will be also interesting to see what happens to those crooks. I woundn't doubt that some sharp attorney gets them with just a slap on the wrist :mad:

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Bypass the dealer and buy factory direct if possible. They usually have some used stuff too.

__________________________________________________ _____
Why be half assed, when you can be all ass.

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

I know of people that tried that and the factory referred them to NM, but in defense of the factory know that they were in the dark about the demise of NM :(

Bill is a crook and conman living in his own little world...Does anyone know his whereabouts now?

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Man Cash that just totally sucks. I got hosed for 5 grand it looks like on a motor deal and I felt like ****. Reading this I am not sure how you are not up there knocking on his door with a bat. I will survive from my screwing but I kept feeling so stupid about it, like I should have done this different or that different. BULLCHIT!!! We guys like you and I trust people because we would never do that to some one else. Unfortunatly there are guys in this world that could care less. If I do not hear from my jerk off by the end of today with a offer then I am posting up my storry :(

Jon

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Greg,

Call me. I'll hook you up if you want a Fountain (I can sell Fountain Sport Boats in So. Fl. - playing by the rules if anyone wants to start any crap!).

It's December and it's slow. I can get any financing done. I'll show you how a REAL dealer does business and then you can be one more referal for me.

Re: Ripped Off Again, my NATIONAL MARINE STORY!!!
 

Greg,

I feel your pain. I have a couple of boats caught up in the same mess. Even worse the people who bought my trade are friends of mine....So were are working with banks and attorneys trying to get it worked out. But to many sleepless nights I know that...Hopefully the banks will forgive your loan, then you can buy your boat back from the original owner...
NM has alot of people in financial trouble. This really sucks.....