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Miami Show TMP1600

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Old 02-28-2005 | 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ApacheCarl
Seems to me that you should identify yourself if your going to bad-mouth somebody. Its easy to hide behind a screen name and talk trash about a company and act like an expert. People that don't identify themselves have zero crediblity in my book.
What Carl said!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 02-28-2005 | 04:42 PM
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JC Poof and no one, how does it feel to get your azz handed to you by Dustin Whipple? That was a big ole glass of "shut up juice" you were just served. Were you able to drink all of that? I am sure the river of Denial will lead you to thinking that you still know more than everyone else.....and even funnier.....that you represent the interests and opinions of the rest of the board. I want to thank you for all of your self seeking, self serving, self promoting BS. You have further solidified my decision on who I get my motors from. This has been the biggest show of somebody getting their teeth kicked in and not even realizing it that I have ever seen....LMFAO! To think......all of these was free......I would have paid good money to see this debate in person.......

Peace Out!
Thunderusone!
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Old 02-28-2005 | 04:50 PM
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Holy moly!!! THAT was a lot of reading... and interesting at that. I have no dogs in this fight, no horses in this race and so on, but I feel compelled to chime in. I talked with "TMPRacing" at the Clevelander for a while Thursday night of the Miami show, and stopped by the booth as well. I have been following them for about a year or so and I think that the biggest problem people have with them is that they look at engine building differently, period! If you call Coke and ask them for their secret formula, and they tell you - sorry it's a secret - will you be pissed at them too!? I can't blame Eddie & Steve for keeping some of their info to themselves, they have a ton of time and effort into this business, trade secrets are just that - secret. There are a lot of good engine builders out there, they just happen to be one more, with an edge. I don't know everything about building engines, but as someone else said earlier, I know enough to get into trouble!! They are building a reputation and they are building - what they and others feel - is a great product, how can you fault them for that? I asked Eddie about 100 questions that night, and he was gracious enough to answer everyone of them, no BS, no hesitation! Whenever someone has a good thing on here, they get called out and slammed without just cause, kind of a downer. I would NOT - for a second - think twice about calling TMP up tomorrow and ordering a set of their motors for a new boat, (if I was currently in the market). Jeff has had great luck and is a prime example of a return customer, if his first set of motors sucked I imagine he'd be going elsewhere 'bout now!? Just because TMP is having success, it has to be assumed that they are selling snake oil and blowing smoke up everyones a$$!? I am just throwing in my .02 and feel that these guys are the next wave (pardon the pun) in performance marine motors. They look at it from a different perspective, they take their time, do their homework and aren't afraid to try new things. I for one am looking forward to what they will be showcasing this summer... keep up the good work guys!!

Ok, have to jump on a plane - be back in the am.

Cheers!

-Mark-
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Old 02-28-2005 | 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by thunderusone
JC Poof and no one, how does it feel to get your azz handed to you by Dustin Whipple? That was a big ole glass of "shut up juice" you were just served. Were you able to drink all of that? I am sure the river of Denial will lead you to thinking that you still know more than everyone else.....and even funnier.....that you represent the interests and opinions of the rest of the board. I want to thank you for all of your self seeking, self serving, self promoting BS. You have further solidified my decision on who I get my motors from. This has been the biggest show of somebody getting their teeth kicked in and not even realizing it that I have ever seen....LMFAO! To think......all of these was free......I would have paid good money to see this debate in person.......

Peace Out!
Thunderusone!

I'm sure glad you did not list me in the top of your post because I am pretty sure my motors make more hp then anything dustin has built to date. Does that mean I know more then him, no. But I am not the motor builder. Do I think my motor builder would have his ass handed to him by dustin, probably so on whipple part numbers and whipple installs but not on engine theory, or how to make alot of hp.

Tyson
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Old 02-28-2005 | 05:15 PM
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I started reading threads on offshore only before I ever owned a boat and the threads like this even though they sound like a bunch of guys seeing who has a bigger piston, have taught me alot and I would definately not have made it this far without reading these things, I would probably have a 23' bayliner with a 350 mag ( sorry to all the people that have those)
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Old 02-28-2005 | 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigyellowcat
I started reading threads on offshore only before I ever owned a boat and the threads like this even though they sound like a bunch of guys seeing who has a bigger piston, have taught me alot and I would definately not have made it this far without reading these things, I would probably have a 23' bayliner with a 350 mag ( sorry to all the people that have those)
Well put Tyson, Your in the audio business and when you posted your miami pics it gave me a chance to poke around on your site. i'm quite sure that you see the same thing in stereo competition, whenever you did something that set a record, or set the bar higher you have other that doubt it. I know I see it in my business as well, being one of the best in the country, people either want the reciepe to my success or will slam my work, but as TMP, Whipple, yourself and others, we still are booked solid and continue to offer our quality service and products. I learn everyday, even though I am a success in my business, I consistantly look for ways to improve my products and expand my business. forums can be tricky, as many people are brave behind a keyboard. As I had posted earlier, no one was complaining about TMP's motors and service, had customers posted bad experiances then I'm sure the shoe would be on the other foot....Rob
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Old 02-28-2005 | 06:53 PM
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well this thread just keeps getting better and better
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Old 03-01-2005 | 01:45 AM
  #258  
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Default Re: Miami Show TMP1600

Originally Posted by Bigyellowcat
I'm sure glad you did not list me in the top of your post because I am pretty sure my motors make more hp then anything dustin has built to date. Does that mean I know more then him, no. But I am not the motor builder. Do I think my motor builder would have his ass handed to him by dustin, probably so on whipple part numbers and whipple installs but not on engine theory, or how to make alot of hp.

Tyson
Tyson,
You should probably get to know my resume a bit better before you comment on what I know. Superchargers are my life, performance is my passion. I've never claimed to be an engine builder and at this point in my life, I don't want to be but I've certainly been part of some interesting projects that have made tremendous power levels and I know a thing or two about combustion theory, cam design, head design, etc. I work with emissions equipped vehicles everyday that have to meet SULEV emissions and you have to know a thing or two regarding internal combustion engines to make that work.

The first thing I know is that I need a screw compressor over a roots, yet most engine builders today still don't know that common fact so not everybody knows everything.

Thanks,
Dustin

Last edited by Whipple Charged; 03-01-2005 at 02:24 AM.
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Old 03-01-2005 | 01:54 AM
  #259  
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Default Re: Miami Show TMP1600

Originally Posted by sutphen30
how much benzene and tolulene was in that gasoline.
they sure did,,and as tmp will find out.it didn't last very long.can't wait to see one of these monster hp motors actually get throttled.steady pulls on a dyno for one big number is not even close to the stain of throttling on the water.good luck,should be fun to watch.
As I said, it's "how long" that really begs the question. Racecrafters motors did last in most circumstances but they kept running into little problems here and there, never having piston, rod, crank problems. That was one person really taking things to extreme, and it did work, I was very impressed. I have no doubt the knowledge gained is nearly invaluable (at least to the ones that didn't pay the bill ).

I'm not dynoing any of these particular motors so I don't get to stress test any of these motors but typically we run our motors between 5-10 minutes on the dyno and certainly in the boat before they're ready for marketplace. I only do quick 10 second swept test for our beginning shake down or to get a baseline calibration, after that, all our testing is done at steady state. Not sure what the fuel blend has to do with making the power, it took a certain fuel to get to a certain power, whether they used more tolulene to increase octane, benzene or propolyne oxide, its up to the chemical engineers. As I said, I've seen it done, didn't say it lasted 10 seasons.

The fact of the matter is that those who always say something is impossible can always settle for whats known but can struggle to move forward. F1 engineers spend countless hours and millions of dollars for 1-2hp. Nobody there says thats it, we can't turn this motor 21,650rpm, only 21,640rpm. The innovators run it to 22,000 with all the possible readings available, then go back to the drawing board and work on fixing or limiting the limitation. Prior to FIA limiting the fuel suppliers of F1, some of their "gasoline" mixes were so extravagent that they had over 5000 different ingrediants and they certainly made a huge difference in power. They wouldn't live on C116 or Trick 110, does that somehow change the fact that they were making 2000hp?

As I said, I'm not in the motor business, we sale to Sterling, Pfaff, Eickert, Teague, etc. and everybody is always striving for more, the beauty of competition.

Thanks,
Dustin

Last edited by Whipple Charged; 03-01-2005 at 02:19 AM.
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Old 03-01-2005 | 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Whipple Charged
Nobody,
The SC's that Racecrafters used are Whipple's so I'm not really sure what your refering to on that statement. We own the rights, we did finally assembly, we were the instrumental force in developing the compressor and getting it to the market. We didn't design the rotor profile, that was left to Svenska Rotor Maskiner, the world leaders in screw compressor technology, but those are Whipple Charger's. We had two versions, A980 and R980. That is 9.8 Liters, is that big enough?

As for Mercury not calling their SC's Whipples, why would they, were competition? Lysholm is mainly in business because of our hard work, drive to succeed and innovative ideas. We paid for the development of every compressor including the 3.3L, we utilize 95% of their sales and are instrumental in getting the compressors to a level worthy of the tough vigors of the marine envoirnment. If anybody doesn't see the similarities with Mercury Racing's lineup vs. ours should have their eyes examined. The OEM's approach some things different, but there are strong similarities.

The marine version of the PSI is smaller than our 3.3L quad rotor. The smaller SC's have far tighter rotor tolerances, have 50 years of superior rotor technology and have superior efficiency levels. The PSI rotor design is an out of patent design from the late 50's and does not compare to the later generation "D" profiles for size vs. flow vs. efficiency.

Theres no doubt a larger compressor could serve a purpose in the marine envoirnment and maybe you'll see something in the near future, for the time being, the likes of Sterling Performance have found tremendous success with the 3.3L quad rotor vs. previous PSI equipped engines and we've had tremendous success with our 3.3 Liter.

As for me treading uncharted territories, I'm not sure who you are or how you may know my expertise, but I can hold my own in the field of forced induction and power. I also don't work with any one person or company, I support our product, simple as that. If somebody with our product wants to hear my thoughts on tuning, EFI controllers, camshaft or head selection, compression, etc. then I will offer my thoughts. I've been blessed with the oppurtunity to listen, learn and interact with some incredibly great minds, many far outside the marine industry and some in. With my fathers drive to understand why something happens and how, I've been lucky to gain invaluable knowledge and learn at an accelerated pace.

As for efficiencies, the turbo offers the highest peak efficiency of any supercharger. The screw compressor and centrifugal are nearly identical in peak efficiency. But very few motors run at peak efficiency. The screw compressor offers the highest possible efficiency through a useable rpm range and therefore it can clearly be called the most efficient supercharger to date. Plot a power curve of identical motors with the screw, roots, centrifugal and turbo and as long as all were sized properly, the screw compressor will have the highest average power.

Thanks,
Dustin
I told myself to stay off this thread, but Dustin's obviously calling me out.

When you say you did the final assembly on the 9.8s. your saying YOU built them. How many 9.8s did you sell or build?

If you own the rights why don't you still sell them? How does Racecrafters get away with not calling them whipples?
I don't know so please explain. Does Autorotor still build your blowers or do you build your blowers?

I agree that the smaller Lysholm blowers are more eff. But when you say your 3.3 blowers make a lot of power you still have 2 blowers not 1. So your not comparing apples to apples. Although this system does yield tremendous gains over roots blowers and fits in very tight places you still have 2 blowers. I can take 2 M5 prochargers and put them on the same motor the 3.3s were on and I promise I'll make more power. Why, because I moved more air. The size and eff. of the supercharger are directly related to HP potential.

As far as Mercury goes, if you own all the rights and are the sole reason Lysholm exists, then they must pay you a fortune in royalties. And yes your blower systems are different, you spray your fuel before the blower and Mercury sprays their fuel in the intake port. Who's right who knows. I wouldn't know unless I could test this both ways.

As far as exploring uncharted territory, I don't recall you being in any pictures or videos of a 1800 HP dyno pull with your 3.3s by your side.
I'm pretty sure your good at tuning EFI's YOU BETTER BE!

As far as who knows more about supercharged engines, I've never talked to you before. I have no clue what you know, but maybe you can help me out-----------------
What do my I/E ratios need to be in a supercharged app.(why)
Does the exhaust runner need to be bigger (why)
What lobe sep. angle does my cam need to be (why)
Does the speed of the air in the intake runner increase with a blower (why)
Answer these simple questions, you ought to know these by heart.
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