Marine Lubrication
07-25-2005 | 06:24 PM
#111
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by bglz42
After this next change, I'm going to try Kendall GT1 40w. Lot's of folks running that down here. I'd like to see how it compares to the 20w50. It'll be a 20 hour test also.
A review:
Adding polymers to a light base (5W, 10W, 20W) creates a multi-grade oil, which prevents oil from thinning as it warms up. The polymers allow the oil to flow like the lower number in cold temperatures, and like the higher number at higher temperatures. In other words, 20W-50 is a 20-weight oil that will not thin more than a 50-weight would at 100° C (375*F).
The question is...are you better off with Kendall 20W-50 or a 40wt?
Well with daytime temps in the mid 90's in Texas and lows in the 70's....a straight 50 is my vote. Save the 40wt for fall. Your 20W-50 sample did not shear much at all...I don't see what you might benefit from by switching and it may not protect as well.... You didn't have much wear with 20W-50 GT-1 and you liked it. You are a conventional kind of guy.
...now I understand that Mobil-1 V-twin is a straight wt 50..it has no polymers..but pumps like a 20W. Am I right on this Craig?
My usual .02
Last edited by Hydrocruiser; 07-25-2005 at 06:43 PM.
07-25-2005 | 07:06 PM
#112
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
I compared many virgin oil analysis samples of gasoline and diesel engine oils. It seems many diesel engine oils have a higher magnesium (mg) level. Gasoline oils around 0-5 ppm of mg and some diesel engine oils around 500 ppm of mg.
Magnesium is what is put into diesel engine oil for "soot" control. Diesel burns dirty and some of the dirt called soot gets into the engine oil. This soot is carbon and it can form huge deposits in diesel engines quickly.
Magnesium is a detergent and is a metallo-organic compound.
It is more "abrasive" than sodium, calcium, boron and the phosphates. It is designed to "scour" and "lift" deposits from surfaces and then to keep them suspended until they get to the oil filter or until the oil is changed.
A few SUV and Truck oils also have higher levels of mg.
My best guess is that an aluminum block may not be too happy with lots of mg...but I don't know for sure. If a diesel engine needs this to prevent large build up of carbon from soot it is the lesser of two evils. A worst case scenerio is it could increase wear as well as keep the engine clean. Personally I don't see myself using diesel oil in my gasoline engine anytime soon.
Magnesium is what is put into diesel engine oil for "soot" control. Diesel burns dirty and some of the dirt called soot gets into the engine oil. This soot is carbon and it can form huge deposits in diesel engines quickly.
Magnesium is a detergent and is a metallo-organic compound.
It is more "abrasive" than sodium, calcium, boron and the phosphates. It is designed to "scour" and "lift" deposits from surfaces and then to keep them suspended until they get to the oil filter or until the oil is changed.
A few SUV and Truck oils also have higher levels of mg.
My best guess is that an aluminum block may not be too happy with lots of mg...but I don't know for sure. If a diesel engine needs this to prevent large build up of carbon from soot it is the lesser of two evils. A worst case scenerio is it could increase wear as well as keep the engine clean. Personally I don't see myself using diesel oil in my gasoline engine anytime soon.
I see some diesel oils indicate on the label they are also compatible with gasoline engines. I guess you have to decide...overall I vote for not routinely using it. That's just a guess too.
07-25-2005 | 07:19 PM
#113
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
...now I understand that Mobil-1 V-twin is a straight wt 50..it has no polymers..but pumps like a 20W. Am I right on this Craig?
My usual .02
My usual .02
I would agree. There are special detergents and soot control additives in CVL/HDMO that aren't suitable for cars. They are though SL approved incase people are in a bind. They work fine, but the are not the recommendation by myself or anyone from ExxonMobil for that matter. That is why they are split into PVL "passenger vehicle lubricants" and CVL or "commercial vehicle lubricants". Mobil 1 from what I know is considered to be a straight 50w. My only problem with the way the market, they have to have a VI improver in the oil in order to put the W on that. The same goes for the Delvac 1 5w40. They call it a 5w, but it pumps at a 0w in cold weather. Same goes for the 15w50. It will flow at a 5w in cold weather start ups. That much I do know with my little oil experience. Like I stated earlier. People have attempted to sue us over situations like this... My vote is for the Mobil 1, but if the shoe fits, you can wear it.
07-25-2005 | 07:40 PM
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by vandy021
I would agree. There are special detergents and soot control additives in CVL/HDMO that aren't suitable for cars. They are though SL approved incase people are in a bind. They work fine, but the are not the recommendation by myself or anyone from ExxonMobil for that matter. That is why they are split into PVL "passenger vehicle lubricants" and CVL or "commercial vehicle lubricants". Mobil 1 from what I know is considered to be a straight 50w. My only problem with the way the market, they have to have a VI improver in the oil in order to put the W on that. The same goes for the Delvac 1 5w40. They call it a 5w, but it pumps at a 0w in cold weather. Same goes for the 15w50. It will flow at a 5w in cold weather start ups. That much I do know with my little oil experience. Like I stated earlier. People have attempted to sue us over situations like this... My vote is for the Mobil 1, but if the shoe fits, you can wear it.
So the 15W-50 Goldcap flows like a 5W.. excellent!
How how about the 20W-50 V-twin....does it flow like a 20W in cold weather?
07-25-2005 | 08:50 PM
#115
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Re: Marine Lubrication
BGLZ42 and Craig..aka vandy....it's great to have you guys on board and sharing your knowledge and experiences.
I hope more members get involved and become as interested as you guys are. I am doing a few oil analysis samples from friend's boats as well. One has a 40ft SeaRay and another has a 42' Fountain with 525's. I will have to find out what they are using and # hours etc.
Take care!!
I hope more members get involved and become as interested as you guys are. I am doing a few oil analysis samples from friend's boats as well. One has a 40ft SeaRay and another has a 42' Fountain with 525's. I will have to find out what they are using and # hours etc.
Take care!!
07-25-2005 | 09:24 PM
#116
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From: Texas City, TX
Re: Marine Lubrication
A worst case scenerio is it could increase wear as well as keep the engine clean.
Geez man, HDEO's increase wear? Come on, Hydro! My Cummins has over 210k miles on it on conventional diesel oil. Doesn't burn a drop. My old GMC gas truck has 300k miles on Rotella. Still solid as a rock when I sold it. It's the toughest oil you can buy in a conventional. BTW, the next time you look at a VOA of an "diesel" oil, pay special attention to the phos and zddp levels...
And btw, M1 Vtwin has more Magnesium than Rotella or Delo...
All oils marketed as "four-stroke marine oils" are in fact HDEO diesel oils, ie Pennzoil Marine, Texaco URSA, etc. The only one that's not is Merc's 25w40.
You guys are in the mid 90's down in Texas with lows in the upper 70's that's 50wt season..son.
I know too many people that use it to great effect to discard it that easily. Read my UOA again, I sheared to a high 40wt. If straights don't shear, and have a higher flashpoint (Kendall 40wt is 500) then it might just work...Take care, Jim
07-25-2005 | 09:29 PM
#117
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by bglz42
Hee hee, like those multi-million mile trucks that run NOTHING be HDEO! Geez man, HDEO's increase wear? Come on, Hydro! My Cummins has over 210k miles on it on conventional diesel oil. Doesn't burn a drop. My old GMC gas truck has 300k miles on Rotella. Still solid as a rock when I sold it.
It's the toughest oil you can buy in a conventional. BTW, the next time you look at a VOA of an "diesel" oil, pay special attention to the phos and zddp levels...
And btw, M1 Vtwin has more Magnesium than Rotella or Delo...
All oils marketed as "four-stroke marine oils" are in fact HDEO diesel oils, ie Pennzoil Marine, Texaco URSA, etc. The only one that's not is Merc's 25w40.
Well Dad, let's give a try anyway. I know too many people that use it to great effect to discard it that easily. Read my UOA again, I sheared to a high 40wt. If straights don't shear, and have a higher flashpoint (Kendall 40wt is 500) then it might just work...
Take care, Jim
Geez man, HDEO's increase wear? Come on, Hydro! My Cummins has over 210k miles on it on conventional diesel oil. Doesn't burn a drop. My old GMC gas truck has 300k miles on Rotella. Still solid as a rock when I sold it. It's the toughest oil you can buy in a conventional. BTW, the next time you look at a VOA of an "diesel" oil, pay special attention to the phos and zddp levels...
And btw, M1 Vtwin has more Magnesium than Rotella or Delo...
All oils marketed as "four-stroke marine oils" are in fact HDEO diesel oils, ie Pennzoil Marine, Texaco URSA, etc. The only one that's not is Merc's 25w40.
Well Dad, let's give a try anyway.
I know too many people that use it to great effect to discard it that easily. Read my UOA again, I sheared to a high 40wt. If straights don't shear, and have a higher flashpoint (Kendall 40wt is 500) then it might just work...Take care, Jim
I knew I was gonna take a whooping for taking that position on diesel oils. Mc Costillin was a big Rotella fan and he knew his stuff.
Why are most marine oils HDEO's what's the advantage?
Mobil-1 V Twin Virgin analysis has 13 ppm of mg while the diesel oils like Delvac have 500 ppm. V-Twin does not have any barium in it as most diesel oils do.
Would you want this diesel stuff in a new Mercedes aluminum gasoline engine?
Looks like it's 40wt then son. If I paid for the synthetic oil for your engine would you use it for free
?
Last edited by Hydrocruiser; 07-25-2005 at 09:40 PM.
07-25-2005 | 09:44 PM
#118
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Re: Marine Lubrication
HDEO's are just tough stuff. I can name at least two instances where I saw immediate improvement upon switching to HDEO.
Here's a neat link, all the VOA's you can stand to read!
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...;f=11;t=000310
On another note: Hydro, I like your idea of this thread, and maybe oil's own section too. Lot's of good info to be spread around. You are respected on this forum as an oil expert. With that being said, I'll ask you to broaden your scope a bit. Everyone is not as thrilled about running VTwin as you are. Some of us like conventionals, or maybe another synthetic. You are a hell af a researcher, so educate yourself on the different oils that people are running, and the results. Let's get more folks to send in UOA samples, (it's incredibly painless and cheap!)
Let's make this section worthwhile to everyone, I think it's good stuff.
Jim
Here's a neat link, all the VOA's you can stand to read!
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...;f=11;t=000310
On another note: Hydro, I like your idea of this thread, and maybe oil's own section too. Lot's of good info to be spread around. You are respected on this forum as an oil expert. With that being said, I'll ask you to broaden your scope a bit. Everyone is not as thrilled about running VTwin as you are. Some of us like conventionals, or maybe another synthetic. You are a hell af a researcher, so educate yourself on the different oils that people are running, and the results. Let's get more folks to send in UOA samples, (it's incredibly painless and cheap!)
Let's make this section worthwhile to everyone, I think it's good stuff.
Jim
07-25-2005 | 09:48 PM
#119
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From: Texas City, TX
Re: Marine Lubrication
Would you want this diesel stuff in a new Mercedes aluminum gasoline engine?
Would I run HDEO in an aluminum engine?
Uh, I have one in my garage full of Rotella right now, with 90k miles on it. Do some research, Hydro.
