Re: Marine Lubrication
 

In looking over some of the diesel oil UAO's it is apparent that the detergent/dispersant levels are higher than some other oils. So I will leave it to you guys to decide if you are ok with that in your application.

I do also notice that friction reduction agents are also either lacking in some or reduced. This would affect mileage in a gas engine. That is one difference to at least think about as friction reducers can also decrease wear.

I find what some on other boards were saying to have swayed me initially and now I am neutral on the issue.

Use it. :drink:

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Which friction reducers? Which detergent dispersants? Which oils? When you compare the VOA's of the additives in V-Twin to the VOA's of the additives in Rotella, they are very similar. (I'm not saying Rotella's better than V-Twin!) I just want to know why the additives in Rotella (or any other HDEO) whould hurt an aluminum motor, (or gas mileage??? :rolleyes: ), when the same additives in V-Twin would not hurt an aluminum motor...

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

"Shell ROTELLA® T Multigrade
Shell ROTELLA® T Multigrade with Advanced Soot Control is a premium quality, heavy-duty multigrade oil for all-season use in diesel-powered or a mix of gasoline- and diesel-powered equipment. It meets or exceeds the warranty and service requirements of virtually all diesel and gasoline engine manufacturers - for both newer and older engines. It is recommended for all on-highway and off-highway applications, especially where all-season use is desired".

"Shell ROTELLA® T Synthetic 5W-40
Shell ROTELLA® T Synthetic is a fully synthetic heavy-duty diesel and gasoline engine oil developed especially to meet the requirements of North American driving. The exclusive Shell formulation offers users exceptional performance and protection in combination with enhanced fuel economy potential over conventional 15W-40 motor oils. This synthetic multigrade engine oil meets the service requirements of virtually all four-stroke cycle diesel and gasoline engine manufacturers".

.....older formulations of these products were harsh according to a tech-line call I made...this is 2005...new products..just read the label.. :drink:


I will even throw in a "you were right and I was wrong"...friends? :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

why don't you go over the fact that if you use v-twin in a vehicle w/a catalytic coverter it will be damaging....

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

As I have stated in an earlier post, higher levels of zinc & phosporous (which are found in better motorcycle lubricants) have not be proven to shorten the life of a catlytic converter. BMW motorcycles have be using cats for years and for years their branded motorcycle lubricant has had extremely high levels of anti-wear. I my opinon it's a non-issue. Ken

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Most friction modified oils started to show their face with the introduction of energy conserving and more so with the intro of A.P.I. SJ. At one point copper was used as an additive but some blenders are moving toward moly. Friction modified lubricants do not make the pistion slide easier in the bore, they make the oil molecules slide over each other easier. This may contrubite some to better fuel milage, however larger gains in fuel milage come from lighter viscosity oils. ie;5w20 vs 20w50. Maybe this is why I never hear anybody at the dock talking fuel milage. Ken

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

with out getting into this and my background...

a quote from Mobile:
"Additive packages balanced differently for motorcycle engine and transmission operation. For passenger vehicles, fuel economy and emission system protection are higher priorities. These require low phosphorus systems and the use of friction modifiers."

ps...motorcycle and automotive are VERY different.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

...and so are offshore engines different too...they need lubricants similiar to what motorcycle oils are made of.. :D

#1. High film strength...achieved with high viscosity single weight conventionals or a synthetic without polymers.

#2. High ZDDP levels

#3. Balanced detergents and dispersants



Synthetic motorcycle oil is the toughest beast on the block. Mostly because the base is not polymerized and it is actually a straight weight oil that behaves like a multi-vis. It can take heat as it is about equal to turbine formulations.

...however to save any hard feelings you can use lard and it will probably work fine. IN other words I respect your opinion....even if you don't agree with mine. :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

This quote form Mobil is very true...........................to a point . I would have a hard time being convinced that a HD, BMW,( not the 650), Moto Guzzi, or any motorcycle with a seperate transmission is different from a car. They both have seperate engine oil, transmission oil, and in some cases, seperate primary oil. They both are water cooled, both have a moderate upper end for RPM. The biggest difference is that Detroit does not have the same agenda as the motorcycle manufactures. Fuel milage. If you do oil analysis on HD branded engine oil you will find that the levels of anti-wear are very close to that of an auto oil, 1000-1300 PPM of zinc. Some after market HD oils are less than that, close to typical SJ auto lubricants. Your typical Japanese motorcycle is a different animal from the above metiontioned brands. They do have a lubricant that is shared by both engine,transmission, and clutch. Some of the latest 600 cc class bikes are turning 17,500 rpm stock out of the box. A need for a different lubricant in this application than the needs of mom's grocery getter

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

real world experience in the race car industry. remember the commercial " motor oil is motor oil ?" there is actually some truth to that...

for normal usage in the vast majority of conditions, a good brand of petroleum based oil changed regually is 100 % adequate and will make whatever you are putting it in last, effectively forever. marine, aircraft and race cars do NOT fall into that catagory.

these motors see a much higher dynamic shock load and temperature gradient through the entire system and spend much more time at greater throttle opening than most conventional applications... therefore the requirements change. shear strength and ability to perform at hight temps become paramount.

in the race cars, thin oil means REAL hp... in the small motors...2 litre sort of things that spin only to 7200 or so , it is not uncommon to run a ZERO wt oil.... sort of looks like lime coolaide... and they live just fine. it is an extremely high grade synthetic called NEO from california... how good is this stuff ? on two seperate occassions w/ two different customers, they broke the oil pump belt leaving the motors w/ zero oil pressure. both times near the end of races and both times while leading. both drivers finished and won... one running two laps w/ no OP and the other three. in both cases the cams were blue and the cranks were blue but there was no metal to metal sticking and no melting or sticking of the bearings... pretty amazing. i wouldn't say " no damage"... we threw the rotating stuff away... but it didn't blow up at 7200 revs for 15 miles w/ 0 op.

we ran this same oil except in 15-30 wt in the 450 hp v-6 buicks that we ran at the 24 hrs of daytona... at the end of 24 hrs the motors showed absolutely ZERO wear... the rod bearings still had the little scratches in them from where i had moved the dial indicator across them to measure for clearences.

as for the mobile 1 synthetics we loved them to death.... 1/3 the price of the neo and would do 99.9 % and i could buy it anywhere as opposed to having to ship it from california.

the red line is a different story. their products are used extensively in racing but i always thought they were garbage. everything we put them in showed accelerated wear across the board. gearboxes that would go 1500 -2000 miles w/ plain old buck a quart 90 wt gear oil would be worn out to junk at 1000 on red line. motors that would keep good leak down numbers for 800 miles on every other oil in the book would lose them at 500 with redline... we had two teams sponsored by red line for both cash and product who would sell the red line out the back door and put mobile 1 in the cars... now having said all that i have to say that those are my own and others experiences and very obviously other people have more success... but i wouldn't put the stuff in my lawn mower.

as for extended drain intervals.... i think you guys are forgetting that oil does more than lubricate your motors... it acts as a depository for all the extra fuel you guys with the big carbs dump in these motors and all the other contaimainants that get generated by that as well as all the metal that gets worn away by running the oil too hot and thinned out from all this extra fuel. you aren't changing the oil because it " wears out" you are changing it like you would change old bath water... because you have filled it up with fuel and contamination and it needs to get out of your motors right now. thats what makes fuel injection the absolute salvation of the marine industry... the ability to FINALLY get rid of those carburettors so big you rent apartment space in them and put on a system that can make a fuel curve that has EXACTLY the correct amount of fuel at EVERY possible condition....but thats another story...

i am running straight 40 wt petroleum in my 502 mag mpi 's. not because i want to but because that what merc says and , right now, i can't get mobile or anyone else to say that there stuff is better for a marine app... but i am looking and would love to go to a high end thinner synthetic just for the power increase... just not willing to do it arbitrarily without any hard data to rely on.

i would just suggest that data and reporting based on the street car industry is probably not relevant at ALL to the marine industry... i would be far more interested in what the aircraft and winston cup guys are using.... their applications are much more like ours than a taxi in glitterville.