Marine Lubrication
#941
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
This was posted on a site that tests synthetic oils:
Ever since Mobil lost their lawsuit against Castrol (they objected to the fact that Castrol "synth" was made from Group III base stock instead of being truly synthesized), and the court decided that the word "synthetic" was related to oil performace, not exactly how it was made, most manufacturers of "synthetic" oils switched to using Group III base. Mobil 1 was one of the last holdouts.
Ever since Mobil lost their lawsuit against Castrol (they objected to the fact that Castrol "synth" was made from Group III base stock instead of being truly synthesized), and the court decided that the word "synthetic" was related to oil performace, not exactly how it was made, most manufacturers of "synthetic" oils switched to using Group III base. Mobil 1 was one of the last holdouts.
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by minxguy
Can't speak about other oils because I don't use them, but Spectro Oil's full synthetic is still a group IV PAO, no group 3 at all. Ken
http://www.amsoil.com/products/motor...spx?zo=1132530
#943
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by o2man98
AMSOIL is also still a Group IV with adds of V with the exception of the XL line of car oils.
http://www.amsoil.com/products/motor...spx?zo=1132530
http://www.amsoil.com/products/motor...spx?zo=1132530
I am not switching to a GRP IV. personally over this.
If I see a flashpoint drop on a brand then I would be alerted to a possible concern. To date I do not see this happening.
Amsoil..M-1..Redline..RP...etc are all good.
Last edited by Hydrocruiser; 11-20-2006 at 07:21 PM.
#944
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Attached is chart of Blackstone Lab analysis of Mercury 25W40 and Mobil1 20W50 V Twin used in my Mercruiser 496.
It is not a good A - B comparison because the 25W40 was run 90 hours in a dead stock 496HO (425hp) and the Mobil 1 20W50 VTwin oil was then run 80 hours after the same engine had been converted to a Gen1 HP3 (~525hp) except the 5150rpm rev limit remained. Both were driven exssentiall the same. The only changes were HP3 heads, HP3 cam and HP3 valve train (except a lower load valve spring was used in lieu of the high load Nascar valve springs) and addition valve relief was added to the stock pistons (while still in the engine). The lower end of the engine was not dissassembled.
That being said I am still more than a bit surprised by the dramatic increase in wear versus the Mercury 25W40 and what appears to me to be generally high wear numbers with the Mobil1 20W50 VTwin oil versus the Blackstone "UNIVERSAL AVERAGES".
Comments/thoughts on these results are solicited.
It is not a good A - B comparison because the 25W40 was run 90 hours in a dead stock 496HO (425hp) and the Mobil 1 20W50 VTwin oil was then run 80 hours after the same engine had been converted to a Gen1 HP3 (~525hp) except the 5150rpm rev limit remained. Both were driven exssentiall the same. The only changes were HP3 heads, HP3 cam and HP3 valve train (except a lower load valve spring was used in lieu of the high load Nascar valve springs) and addition valve relief was added to the stock pistons (while still in the engine). The lower end of the engine was not dissassembled.
That being said I am still more than a bit surprised by the dramatic increase in wear versus the Mercury 25W40 and what appears to me to be generally high wear numbers with the Mobil1 20W50 VTwin oil versus the Blackstone "UNIVERSAL AVERAGES".
Comments/thoughts on these results are solicited.
#945
Re: Marine Lubrication
So you ground a valve relief into the pistons while they were still in the motor?
I'd figure a lot of your wear metals are from doing that. Did you do an oil change shortly after the modifications, or is that v-twin oil the stuff you put in when you got done hopping it up? I would think that the new cam and valvetrain would result in more metal in the oil.
Fuel is high and flashpoint is low, though. Tune issues, maybe? Or maybe the extra 100 hp just takes a lot out of a motor?
I'd figure a lot of your wear metals are from doing that. Did you do an oil change shortly after the modifications, or is that v-twin oil the stuff you put in when you got done hopping it up? I would think that the new cam and valvetrain would result in more metal in the oil.
Fuel is high and flashpoint is low, though. Tune issues, maybe? Or maybe the extra 100 hp just takes a lot out of a motor?
#946
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Rage
Attached is chart of Blackstone Lab analysis of Mercury 25W40 and Mobil1 20W50 V Twin used in my Mercruiser 496.
It is not a good A - B comparison because the 25W40 was run 90 hours in a dead stock 496HO (425hp) and the Mobil 1 20W50 VTwin oil was then run 80 hours after the same engine had been converted to a Gen1 HP3 (~525hp) except the 5150rpm rev limit remained. Both were driven exssentiall the same. The only changes were HP3 heads, HP3 cam and HP3 valve train (except a lower load valve spring was used in lieu of the high load Nascar valve springs) and addition valve relief was added to the stock pistons (while still in the engine). The lower end of the engine was not dissassembled.
That being said I am still more than a bit surprised by the dramatic increase in wear versus the Mercury 25W40 and what appears to me to be generally high wear numbers with the Mobil1 20W50 VTwin oil versus the Blackstone "UNIVERSAL AVERAGES".
Comments/thoughts on these results are solicited.
It is not a good A - B comparison because the 25W40 was run 90 hours in a dead stock 496HO (425hp) and the Mobil 1 20W50 VTwin oil was then run 80 hours after the same engine had been converted to a Gen1 HP3 (~525hp) except the 5150rpm rev limit remained. Both were driven exssentiall the same. The only changes were HP3 heads, HP3 cam and HP3 valve train (except a lower load valve spring was used in lieu of the high load Nascar valve springs) and addition valve relief was added to the stock pistons (while still in the engine). The lower end of the engine was not dissassembled.
That being said I am still more than a bit surprised by the dramatic increase in wear versus the Mercury 25W40 and what appears to me to be generally high wear numbers with the Mobil1 20W50 VTwin oil versus the Blackstone "UNIVERSAL AVERAGES".
Comments/thoughts on these results are solicited.
The reason the universal average is higher is because increased detergency specific to the product frees up sludge and metal particles thereby increasing "wear metal content" from a long time back.
We have known this for a while.
Last edited by Hydrocruiser; 11-21-2006 at 03:12 PM.
#947
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Re: Marine Lubrication
FYI..I checked my sources and a trend is that there is a blending of PAO III. (highly refined) and IV. basestocks occuring to various degrees. Some synthetics are 100% GRP III. and some 100% GRP IV.
This does not worry me for the most part as synthetics still have the edge and the products are continuing to perform well vs. non-premium conventionals.
I suspect based on oil tests that it is safe to say that the more a product costs on average.. the more GRP IV. is in the formulation.
I would not "diss" a premium oil such as Mercury 25W-40 or Kendall 20W-50 as they work well and conversely would not say all "synthetics" are "equal" either.
As far as synthetics go the rule is the more it costs the better the product performs. You do get what you pay for.
This does not worry me for the most part as synthetics still have the edge and the products are continuing to perform well vs. non-premium conventionals.
I suspect based on oil tests that it is safe to say that the more a product costs on average.. the more GRP IV. is in the formulation.
I would not "diss" a premium oil such as Mercury 25W-40 or Kendall 20W-50 as they work well and conversely would not say all "synthetics" are "equal" either.
As far as synthetics go the rule is the more it costs the better the product performs. You do get what you pay for.
Last edited by Hydrocruiser; 11-21-2006 at 03:20 PM.
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Re: Marine Lubrication
I've followed this thread for some time, and I'm more confused then ever. I don't care what an oil change costs, if I can extend engine life, but I don't know what the best oil would be.
#949
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by phebus
I've followed this thread for some time, and I'm more confused then ever. I don't care what an oil change costs, if I can extend engine life, but I don't know what the best oil would be.
Pick the right viscosity and you are good to go.
If you are paying $6-9/qt you got the good stuff in the crankcase.
#950
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
Amsoil Premiums/Mobil-1 EP & V-Twin/Redline/Royal Purple
Pick the right viscosity and you are good to go.
If you are paying $6-9/qt you got the good stuff in the
crankcase.
Pick the right viscosity and you are good to go.
If you are paying $6-9/qt you got the good stuff in the
crankcase.