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Old 07-20-2005 | 11:54 PM
  #51  
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Default Re: 10% ethanol fuel

They sell that stuff in Az., I don't if they do it all year round but I know I run it my boat and my cars and can't say that I've had any problems that I could relate to using it. Bag gas is bad gas whether is has ethanol in it or not.....
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Old 07-21-2005 | 06:45 AM
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Default Re: 10% ethanol fuel

Originally Posted by at100plus
most important (and most astonishing), it may take more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than it actually contains.

The greens, hawks, and farmers helped convince the Senate to add an ethanol provision to the energy bill—now awaiting action by a House-Senate conference committee—that would require refiners to more than double their use of ethanol to 8 billion gallons per year by 2012. The provision is the latest installment of the ethanol subsidy, a handout that has cost American taxpayers billions of dollars during the last three decades, with little to show for it. It also shovels yet more federal cash on the single most subsidized crop in America, corn. Between 1995 and 2003, federal corn subsidies totaled $37.3 billion.

The two scientists calculated all the fuel inputs for ethanol production—from the diesel fuel for the tractor planting the corn, to the fertilizer put in the field, to the energy needed at the processing plant—and found that ethanol is a net energy-loser. According to their calculations, ethanol contains about 76,000 BTUs per gallon, but producing that ethanol from corn takes about 98,000 BTUs. For comparison, a gallon of gasoline contains about 116,000 BTUs per gallon. But making that gallon of gas—from drilling the well, to transportation, through refining—requires around 22,000 BTUs.

Adding more ethanol will also increase the complexity of America's refining infrastructure, which is already straining to meet demand, thus raising pump prices. Ethanol must be blended with gasoline. But ethanol absorbs water. Gasoline doesn't. Therefore, ethanol cannot be shipped by regular petroleum pipelines. Instead, it must be segregated from other motor fuels and shipped by truck, rail car, or barge. Those shipping methods are far more expensive than pipelines.

There's another problem: Ethanol, when mixed with gasoline, causes the mixture to evaporate very quickly. That forces refiners to dramatically alter their gasoline to compensate for the ethanol. (Throughout the year, refiners adjust the vapor pressure of their fuel to compensate for the change in air temperature. In summer, you want gasoline to evaporate slowly. In winter, you want it to evaporate quickly.) In a report released last month, the GAO underscored the evaporative problems posed by ethanol, saying that compensating for ethanol forces refiners to remove certain liquids from their gasoline: "Removing these components and reprocessing them or diverting them to other products increases the cost of making ethanol-blended gasoline."

There's a final point to be raised about ethanol: It contains only about two-thirds as much energy as gasoline. Thus, when it gets blended with regular gasoline, it lowers the heat content of the fuel. So, while a gallon of ethanol-blended gas may cost the same as regular gasoline, it won't take you as far.

What frustrates critics is that there are sensible ways to reduce our motor-fuel use and bolster renewable energy—they just don't help the corn lobby. Patzek points out that if we channeled the billions spent on ethanol into fuel-efficient cars and solar cells, "That would give us so much more bang for the buck that it's a no-brainer.

Full Article:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2122961/fr/rss/#ContinueArticle

That study is so fricken flawed it makes me laugh. Only an extemest would believe it. "right down to the fuel burned in the tractor to plant the corn" . Why did they stop there. It took fuel to refine the fuel used in the tractor to plant the corn.
Don't they think that corn was going to be planted whether or not it went to Ethanol production?


The way I read when you posted from Merc, you had better get rid of your eggbeat engines. Put a bigblock in oyur baby skater then your problems are solved.
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Old 07-21-2005 | 08:44 AM
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My eggbeaters will run mulitple circles around your car on water. And who's burning more fuel? Half your horsepower is to push the weight of your engines. But that's another debate. There is a place for car motors in performance boats but not in a 24' boat.

Looks like you will be better off than me with ethanol since you are a farmer, you don't have outboards and you don't have a Skater. But I'm not the only one in the country with a Skater with outboards, and all those potential problems that I have posted can and will affect any and all boaters. Who needs more problems with their boats.

That's all I have to say. Have a safe season.

Last edited by at100plus; 07-21-2005 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 07-21-2005 | 09:40 AM
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Default Re: 10% ethanol fuel

Originally Posted by at100plus
Have a safe season.

Thanks, you too
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Old 07-21-2005 | 09:55 AM
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Default Re: 10% ethanol fuel

Continue to research and I am sure you will find a fuel additive that will minimize the problems. A lot of boaters that run hard add some marvel mystery oil to their fuel. The marvel provides some extra lubrication and evenly disperses into a tank of gas. I am not saying Marvel is the answer, but I am sure there is something similar out there that will help. Ethanol isn't going away!!

Craig
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Old 07-21-2005 | 11:48 AM
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Default Re: 10% ethanol fuel

I grew up in Iowa and have used 10% ethanol for 20+ years in my cars and trucks. While they were not marine applications, I NEVER had a problem with burning this gas.

Anything that can help the US get off our dependence on foreign oil needs to be studied especially if it is a renewable source.
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Old 07-28-2005 | 08:38 PM
  #57  
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Default Re: 10% ethanol fuel

100plus
Just wanted to update you on blown motor.They determined it was a bad ECM.
Mess
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Old 07-28-2005 | 09:43 PM
  #58  
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Default Re: 10% ethanol fuel

Originally Posted by mess
100plus
Just wanted to update you on blown motor.They determined it was a bad ECM.
Mess
You sure you didn't spill any ethenol on it?

Seriously, thanks for the update.
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Old 08-28-2005 | 09:34 AM
  #59  
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In Michigan the farmers (who have a vested interest in selling as much ethanol as possible) have gotten a state bill passed last year lifting gas stations requirments to post the "this fuel contains up to 10% ethanol" stickers at the gas pumps. WHY-so the gas consumer can't even make a choice to use it or not. It doesn't do anyone with anything high performance any favors thats for sure.I personally avoid the stuff if at all possible,its much worse on 2 strokes though then 4 strokes. I have a high performance snowmobile and if running ethanol fuel it must be jetted 2-3 sizes richer to not melt down with the motor/pistons due to being too lean. The state legislature stated when passing the bill that it made no difference in the average modern fuel injected vehicle,that is very well true BUT the fact that it contains less overall energy per gallon is conviently left out which in turn means slightly less mpg. And they are also conviently over looking high performance 2 strokes that if are jetted perfect will melt down unless operator compensates for the ethanol that he's buying UNWITTINGLY. As far as 496 ho owners,many of them have been running the stuff and not even knowing it,a stock motor has a slightly rich efi program that will keep it safe plus the thing sees exaust temp so it can compensate. The guy who needs to worry is the older 502/454 mpi owner who has had computer leaned down,no exhaust temp sensor etc,Smitty
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Old 08-28-2005 | 07:15 PM
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Default Re: 10% ethanol fuel

Here's another first hand account of the problems. Ethanol is hitting Long Islanders hard with problems.

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forum...ad.php?t=90623

Funny, these farmers and investors can't spell ethanol correctly but they assure us it won't hurt anything and it's a great alternative / "renewable" energy source.

If you can stay awake through all this, here's another example of how lousy this stuff will run in your vehicles:

http://zfacts.com/p/60.html

Last edited by at100plus; 08-28-2005 at 07:59 PM.
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