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Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
So what is the real world results with these systems? trying to figure this out and would like some real world feed back on installation , results and problems encountered with the system that you installed.
Also post Performance gains actually gained, before & After. Thanks Bryan |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Procharger is the biggest pile of crap on the market. Vortech's make more air, better air and quicker.
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Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
The biggest problem with prochargers is the fuel system, they band aid what you have instead of fixing it right. Vortech's kit is much more complete. Prochargers can make alot of power but dialing them is is a pain in the azz. Vortech's tech support is unreal too. I have dealt with Bob Endress many times and he has always come through for me. He has even driven to the shop several times to get things squared away for us.
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Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
You might want to look at Steve Morris Racing Engines. com.
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Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
You may also want to take a look under GPM's hood! :eek:
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Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by RichardCranium572
Procharger is the biggest pile of crap on the market. Vortech's make more air, better air and quicker.
Rob :drink: |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
I like the Procharger head units but thats about it.
Our saying at the shop..."The system sucks but the headunit is TOP NOTCH" lol. The vortec systems are very nice and complete. I would reccomend a Procharger for the person looking to make all his or her own stuff to support it. |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
I've had good luck with my Vortech. It's survived about a season and a half. Gained about 10 mph with a single motor boat. Had AZSM set it up and program the ECM. Also had them but bigger injectors and fuel pump and regulator in. I'm refreshing the motor this winter, new cam, lifters, springs, etc and head work, I hope to gain another ten when I'm done. :D
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Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Bryan,
I installed a ProCharger Stge II sc on my 502 Mag four years ago and have had no problems related to the ProCharger, went from 70 gps to 85+ in a 27 Fountain. I also know quite a few people with ProCharger's on efi motors with no problems. If you have basic mechanical skills the install is a no problem but if you cannot put together a kids bike leave it to the pros. Vortech make a good kit and so does Whipple but in the end all of them are only as good as the install. Dont listen to biased people who say any of the kits are junk. |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by INDY27
Bryan,
I installed a ProCharger Stge II sc on my 502 Mag four years ago and have had no problems related to the ProCharger, went from 70 gps to 85+ in a 27 Fountain. I also know quite a few people with ProCharger's on efi motors with no problems. If you have basic mechanical skills the install is a no problem but if you cannot put together a kids bike leave it to the pros. Vortech make a good kit and so does Whipple but in the end all of them are only as good as the install. Dont listen to biased morons who say any of the kits are junk because they probably dont have the mentality to install one anyway :evilb: Have you ever put a wide band air fuel ratio meter on a procharger app? Do you even have a WB AFR meter? Never mind it's a ****ty charger compared to a vortech....can't even compare it to a whipple. Does it not concern you that they sell you a supercharger(hairdryer) without any computer mods on an EFI setup? They include a bigger fuel pump and have you remove the thermostat and crank the fuel pressure up. I know this works full throttle, but how much extra fuel are you unnecessarily putting in at idle and part throttle...let's not forget about all the soot on the back of the boat that gets on the girl's bathing suits. As for biased morons, be careful not to put yourself in that category. I tune 2-3 supercharged engines a week, all over the country. :rolleyes: |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by RichardCranium572
Procharger is the biggest pile of crap on the market. Vortech's make more air, better air and quicker.
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Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
I am well aware of how the system works and as you know proper setup for the EFI motor includes having the ecu re-mapped to take it out of the the cold start mode it defaults to after removing the thermostat. Not biased at all here, like I said all the kits are good if set up properly.
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Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Good info guys...Thankyou and keep the info coming, perhaps like Indy did in his post about speed gains after all it is the second half of the equation here.
Strip POker , I think that the price difference is very close at the time I am writing this. I know pro-charger usues a huge intercooler that I know has to help with the air charge temps. Bryan |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Bryan,
When I got my setup it was after tons of research here on the board and had actually decided on the Whipple( the old kit) but in order to install it in my boat required cutting a hole in the fiberglass section behind the back seat for the pulley which I did not want to do. In the end it all boiled down to price, I found my ProCharger here on the board brand new for only $3500 from a guy who took it in on trade and have been impressed ever since. If I were to do all over again and had to pay the going rate I would probably lean towards the new style Whipple though. Just my .02 cents. |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by RichardCranium572
Have you ever put a wide band air fuel ratio meter on a procharger app? Do you even have a WB AFR meter? Never mind it's a ****ty charger compared to a vortech....can't even compare it to a whipple. Does it not concern you that they sell you a supercharger(hairdryer) without any computer mods on an EFI setup? They include a bigger fuel pump and have you remove the thermostat and crank the fuel pressure up. I know this works full throttle, but how much extra fuel are you unnecessarily putting in at idle and part throttle...let's not forget about all the soot on the back of the boat that gets on the girl's bathing suits.
As for biased morons, be careful not to put yourself in that category. I tune 2-3 supercharged engines a week, all over the country. :rolleyes: RichardCranium572 I dont think they relize what you do or who you are :rolleyes: You going to PRI ? Rob :drink: |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by Bryan Rose
Good info guys...Thankyou and keep the info coming, perhaps like Indy did in his post about speed gains after all it is the second half of the equation here.
Strip POker , I think that the price difference is very close at the time I am writing this. I know pro-charger usues a huge intercooler that I know has to help with the air charge temps. Bryan Ck out Rtech on what they did with there innercooler its alittle tall but it works, its on top of the motor not hanging off the side with 10 feet of pipe. When I cked on the Whipple vs the proCharger $$ it was about 2k diff. I know ProCharger gives a discount to dealers in Nov or Dec $500. per kit . That would help if the dealer passed it on to ya. Good luck shopping Rob :D |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by Bryan Rose
So what is the real world results with these systems? trying to figure this out and would like some real world feed back on installation , results and problems encountered with the system that you installed.
Also post Performance gains actually gained, before & After. Thanks Bryan |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by GPM
What is your application?
This is for a 98-2002 Hp 500 EFI , in a Donzi 27 ZX that runs 70 MPH now. |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
I would think you should be able to make 750 reliable hp with either system. I've been running the Procharger for 4 seasons now without a problem.
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Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by INDY27
Bryan,
I installed a ProCharger Stge II sc on my 502 Mag four years ago and have had no problems related to the ProCharger, went from 70 gps to 85+ in a 27 Fountain. I also know quite a few people with ProCharger's on efi motors with no problems. If you have basic mechanical skills the install is a no problem but if you cannot put together a kids bike leave it to the pros. Vortech make a good kit and so does Whipple but in the end all of them are only as good as the install. Dont listen to biased people who say any of the kits are junk. |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by hillbilly24
I'm not biased at all, I own neither and probably never will, beyond any performance arguements I am an old school roots blower fan. It's an astetics thing with me. You are right eithe rone is only as good as the installation, the diffrence is that a proper installation is much simpler with the Votech kits. Tey fix the fuel system the right way and don't leave it up to the customer to figure out wh the hell to do to make it run right throughout the engines RPM range not just at WOT. Prochargers can make great power and can be very reliable there is just alot more guesswork and ultimatley money spent by the customer to make it right. Accessible Technology, prochargers parent company, does not have the best tech support in the world either, you can always get someone on the phone but they don't ussualy have the first clue what they are talking about and wouldn't know what stoitametric ratio means to save their life. If you call Vortech Marine tech support they will give you Bob Endress's personal cell phone number that he will answer day or night and not hang up until you have the problem solved. He will drive or fly to youy home to fix the problem if neccesary, I have had nothing but great dealings with him and I don't know anyone who feels diffrently. Bottom line is that you are going to spend alot more money making a procharger make the same reliable power as a Vortech.
Isnt Arizonia Speed and Marine pushing the Vortech over the ProCharger? |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by hillbilly24
I'm not biased at all, I own neither and probably never will, beyond any performance arguements I am an old school roots blower fan. It's an astetics thing with me. You are right eithe rone is only as good as the installation, the diffrence is that a proper installation is much simpler with the Votech kits. Tey fix the fuel system the right way and don't leave it up to the customer to figure out wh the hell to do to make it run right throughout the engines RPM range not just at WOT. Prochargers can make great power and can be very reliable there is just alot more guesswork and ultimatley money spent by the customer to make it right. Accessible Technology, prochargers parent company, does not have the best tech support in the world either, you can always get someone on the phone but they don't ussualy have the first clue what they are talking about and wouldn't know what stoitametric ratio means to save their life. If you call Vortech Marine tech support they will give you Bob Endress's personal cell phone number that he will answer day or night and not hang up until you have the problem solved. He will drive or fly to youy home to fix the problem if neccesary, I have had nothing but great dealings with him and I don't know anyone who feels diffrently. Bottom line is that you are going to spend alot more money making a procharger make the same reliable power as a Vortech.
Isn't Arizona Speed and Marine pushing the Vortech over the ProCharger? Rob :D |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by hillbilly24
I'm not biased at all, I own neither and probably never will, beyond any performance arguements I am an old school roots blower fan. It's an astetics thing with me. You are right eithe rone is only as good as the installation, the diffrence is that a proper installation is much simpler with the Votech kits. Tey fix the fuel system the right way and don't leave it up to the customer to figure out wh the hell to do to make it run right throughout the engines RPM range not just at WOT. Prochargers can make great power and can be very reliable there is just alot more guesswork and ultimatley money spent by the customer to make it right. Accessible Technology, prochargers parent company, does not have the best tech support in the world either, you can always get someone on the phone but they don't ussualy have the first clue what they are talking about and wouldn't know what stoitametric ratio means to save their life. If you call Vortech Marine tech support they will give you Bob Endress's personal cell phone number that he will answer day or night and not hang up until you have the problem solved. He will drive or fly to youy home to fix the problem if neccesary, I have had nothing but great dealings with him and I don't know anyone who feels diffrently. Bottom line is that you are going to spend alot more money making a procharger make the same reliable power as a Vortech.
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Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by Strip Poker 388
I forgot Bob Endress was with vortech. I believe hes been doing marine chargers since around 1985? B&M :drink:
Isn't Arizona Speed and Marine pushing the Vortech over the ProCharger? Rob :D That's what they talked me into, and I think I made a good decision. I think the Whipple is a better looking system, it makes a whole lot of low end torque but they said I would get more top end out of the Vortech as opposed to low end and mid range out of the Whipple. I have enough low end torque to eat stock Bravo's as it is. I wanted top speed over any other performance upgrade. |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by INDY27
I never had the use ATI's tech support, all you have to do is re-program the ecu (I used Precision Marine) , set the timing and adjust fuel pressure and there you go.. turnkey reliability!
I just got off the phone with Mark. He said he likes the Vortech over the Procharger also.He said it comes in like the Whipple and makes repetible pulls on the dyno. I belive thats what RTech uses also.I guess it depend on what ya want to speed ? |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by BADKACHINA
That's what they talked me into, and I think I made a good decision. I think the Whipple is a better looking system, it makes a whole lot of low end torque but they said I would get more top end out of the Vortech as opposed to low end and mid range out of the Whipple. I have enough low end torque to eat stock Bravo's as it is. I wanted top speed over any other performance upgrade.
I bet the Vortech makes close to the same peek HP on the top end as the Whipple would . My boost climbed up to 6100 on the dyno.Thats as high as we pulled it.The Whipple does make boost real low also.We started the pulls at 3000. I just roll into the throttle up to about 4800 thats where the TQ starts to taper off . trying to save the drives. No since in breaking drives slamming the sticks.I run it up to about 5000 then go wfo :D It still pulls pretty hard even at 5500.Mine had above 890 TQ from 3700 to 4500 and tapered slowly after that. The Hp never peeked. I wish someone would do a test on these 3 superchargers say on a 500efi . back to back test. same motor no changes in parts just changing the superchargers.Also make them have the exact same boost to see which one is more efficient and which one makes more power . The one that makes the most AVERAGE power say from 3000 to 5800rpm. I know all 3 will have different power curves but I think the one with the highest average would tell ya which on is the best.At least thats how we do the drag motors , I would think you would want the one with the highest average in a boat also. What ya think???????? Rob :D |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
http://www.rtechperformance.com/
If you want optimum performance out of either one, Tom is the man to speak with. |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by Strip Poker 388
I would think you would want the one with the highest average in a boat also.
What ya think???????? Rob :D I want the BEST top end speed. For me, I could care less at low to mid range performance. 5 blades will take care of that. All I need is 13-14 mph more and I am at one goal in life before I croak. :cool: |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by Downtown42
I want the BEST top end speed. For me, I could care less at low to mid range performance. 5 blades will take care of that.
All I need is 13-14 mph more and I am at one goal in life before I croak. :cool: So far on mine I have picked up between 17-20mph and I need bigger props. Downtown what speed you trying to get????? Rob :drink: |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by Strip Poker 388
Mark at Precision Marine :D When ya got Mark doing the ECU ya dont have to touch it . Doesnt mater what it is.
I just got off the phone with Mark. He said he likes the Vortech over the Procharger also.He said it comes in like the Whipple and makes repetible pulls on the dyno. I belive thats what RTech uses also.I guess it depend on what ya want to speed ? |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by INDY27
Mark is one of the best, funny thing is four years ago he was ProCharger 100%. Your boy RichardCranium572 is way off base calling ProCharger a pile of crap though :drink:
True. I guess most people dont like the fuel system on the prochargers? Look what they do in the cars with them at the street car shoot out . There some fast ones out there :drink: Rob :drink: |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Yeah, ProCharger, Vortec and Whipple are all ok for rec. use but I have never seen one on a Sterling motor! :drink:
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Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
So much drama for one simple question!
Brian has a 500 EFI and you guys are talking about Sterlings and slamming each system. I am no expert but have seen some nice reliable gains from each system. The vortech is a good turnkey system. I personally think it looks like a better match for the EFI. The thing I like about the procharger is the nice big intercooler (on the M-3). If you have a 502mag, some room for a big intercooler and a knowledgeable installer you will do just fine. I can't help but think that the huge intercooler has some good advantages. I think that the premis for the question was not to start a slamming session but to solicite some feedback of a number of users of both systems. |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
It has gotten a little off topic here but so far BADKACHINA and myself are the only ones to provide any real info to Brian. I forgot to mention that I had my heads upgraded by Mark @ Precision Marine two years ago with a five angle vavle job, Icolnel valves, roller rockers and ARP head bolts. Last month I installed a slightly more agressive roller cam & lifters and a smaller pulley on the M3 which has prduced 7lbs boost and 89 (best) on gps spinning a stock 34p Bravo @5300 rpm's. I got 88.2 gps with a stock Hydro Q-IV 31p on the limiter @ 5450 rpm's so I should break 90 by going to a 32p. :D
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Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by Strip Poker 388
So far on mine I have picked up between 17-20mph and I need bigger props.
Downtown what speed you trying to get????? Rob :drink: How much roughly to Whipple a 525 at around 700hp? x2 |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by INDY27
It has gotten a little off topic here but so far BADKACHINA and myself are the only ones to provide any real info to Brian. I forgot to mention that I had my heads upgraded by Mark @ Precision Marine two years ago with a five angle vavle job, Icolnel valves, roller rockers and ARP head bolts. Last month I installed a slightly more agressive roller cam & lifters and a smaller pulley on the M3 which has prduced 7lbs boost and 89 (best) on gps spinning a stock 34p Bravo @5300 rpm's. I got 88.2 gps with a stock Hydro Q-IV 31p on the limiter @ 8450 rpm's so I should break 90 by going to a 32p. :D
What kind of gain did you get from the head work? |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Originally Posted by Louisville Boater
Man that is moving pretty good. What are you running as a drive?
What kind of gain did you get from the head work? |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
Ive been running a procharger m-3 on a 540 ci bbc fuel injected ,6lbs of boost ,ASM ecu, for over 2 years without any problems, as said before , i think it all comes down to proper installation.
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Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
2 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by INDY27
Yeah, ProCharger, Vortec and Whipple are all ok for rec. use but I have never seen one on a Sterling motor! :drink:
Indy27 your getting some good speed .Sorry for getting Off topic.I wander sometimes :D Rob :drink: |
Re: Pro-Charger versus Vortech, & the winner is?
I have been watching this thread with great attention, Thank you all for the info and drama to go along with it... :evilb: lol I love drama... good reading indeed . I have decided to go with a Vortech system ...found a good deal on one that is pretty much local and a good guy I have done biz with in the past. It is a sytsem that only has dyno time on it and I am comforatble with that. I will have to get some other parts for it to complete the system but I think I will come out way ahead on the deal , It even has an extra computer wiith it so I am going to have two computers, good thing or bad thing I do not know. The system is polished :D should look nice. I can only hope that it performs as well as everyone says it does. I am going to have him install it I believe and get it dialed in to his spec...he owns a hot rod boat shop in the SE. I have seen some of his other projects and they hual A$$. So I thank you all for the help and opinions on the subject. I never thought I would get this much responce about a system of this kind, thanks again.
I am currently running a consistant 70 MPH...GPS 27 foor twin step Donzi Bravo I 1.5 HP 500 EFI 26" Bravo I @5000 I am going to need to beef up the drive ...what shall I do? IN the process of getting a hydraulic steering system together...Dual rams helm back..... any thoughts on what I will be running when :eek: completed with 700 ponies under the hatch? I am hoping on 80MPH Bryan |
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