Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Ok guys.... I am very beat down. All this damn work... finally have everything together. Chevy 502 in my 22' Scarab... runs great! Sounds great!! Everything!

Take it out to the lake to do some tuning... It is running a little rich so I wanted to play with the timming a bit and possibly jet it down a little.

I start to bring her up to speed slowly... at 2000rpms it starts spraying oil out of the dipstick! NOW What??

Do a little more playing and it really does it anytime I put the engine under load (hole shot or higher RPM). The only thing I can think of is maybe the motor dosent have a windage tray? Yes it has a breather on the valve cover... it does it with or without the breather.

Ideas?? Please help guys!!

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

more then likely exessive blowby if new mtr could have rings installed incorrectly do a leak down test

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Uhg.... Ok... any other possibilities?

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

If oil is coming up through the dipstick, then the crankcase is pressurizing beyond what the breather can handle. You definitely have some kind of problem related to your pistons/rings/bores. I agree with the leakdown test. There isn't anything else that I can think of that would cause the oil to squirt out. How old is the engine? If it's new/rebuilt, then there is probably an assembly problem. If it's got some hours, then something is worn or broken. You might as well get ready to pull it and check it out before things get worse.

Good luck,

Rene

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

sorry to be the bearer of bad news

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Nahh... I was afraid that was what it was... I was hoping that maybe there is something else it could be.

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Only other thing would be if you 'way' overfilled it with oil. The crank will totally beat up the oil.

Ok, one more thing - if you don't have proper # or size of breathers or ventilation tubes, the dipstick will push out do to the excessive pressure.

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

:eek:

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Don't know if this will apply or not. I heard if you rebuild with chrome molly rings that they take a long time to seat. If the rings aren't seated it will blow by. Its up for debate.

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Do a leak down test on your engine.

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

I have heard this as well... the motor hardly has an hour on it yet... should I let it run longer?

MORE INFO PLEASE!!

I am going to do a leakdown test this weekend and see what it shows...

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

dont run it anymore till you do a leak down and know whats up with it, all you can do is more harm at this point

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Do you know for sure if the ring gaps were staggered, or not lined up. I guess you could be concerned, if you were to try running it easy for a while, there is a problem with a broke ring and its in there scratching up a cylinder. You'd have to pull the head off and see if there signs on the cylinder wall. What is the tolerenace your going to use for go, no go, on a leak down test?

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Its blowby... I had that problem and did a re-fresh without pistons.. It wasn't major as long as you trust your rebuilder.. Where are you located???

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Ok... so run it or dont run it? It runs and idles great... hell it acts great, untill you get it in the water and under load. Sitting still, idle, revs up to 3-4k never a problem. Then when we get it to the lake... under load or even if I take he slowly up to speed at about 2500RPM's it starts to push oil out the dipstick.

Here is a vid of her the morning we took her out to the lake..
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...arab_Motor.jpg

Now after talking to the engine builder he believes that we havent let the rings seat... with cold water intake and a 160deg thermostat it has never really warmed up. He said that you need to let it get to 180-200 to seat the rings correctly. (Is this right?) Hell at the lake the motor never even got hot enough to get above 110Deg.

We are still going to do a leak down, but what are the good / bad results?

Is there a way I can see if there is a major problem vs: just needing to let the rings seat?

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Best way to tell is a leak down test. Even if rings are not seated it will confirm or not if you have leakage by the rings causing problem. Do you know what kind of rings were installed?

If you are going to run it how well do you get along with your engine builder? Will he stand behind it if you have a broken ring or trouble?

Couple of other thoughts I will throw out. I noticed in your video you are running after market valve covers. Maybe a dumb question but are you sure you have crankcase vented properly? I would also double check your oil pans capacity. If you have room run it a quart low long enough just to see if that helps.

If you are going to run as is and you have access to a bore scope you could check the top end - cylinder walls for any damge or scuffing (broken ring?) by looking down through the spark plug holes. Maybe your builder has one? Neat little tool. Good luck.

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Ok stupid question... what is the correct Breather/PCV setup for a 502?

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Sorry man I went off for a while. No dumb questions right?

Anyway main thing is to have enough breather so you do not build crank case pressure. If you have excessive leakage by the rings this is next to impossible besides performance loss you would have.

Stock 502 has a PCV valve and a small hose breather to flame arrestor. Works well up to 5 - 5500 RPM from my expierence.

Unless your rings are really leaking bad which you could tell with a leakdown test my guess is you have a pan - oil level or a breather problem. I have known some to tie dipstick so it can not be pushed up while running because of crankcase pressure. Short term fix but it could hold for a while while you test more.

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

I have heard the "one less quart" suggestion... and may try that. If its truly a presure problem that wont fit it right? What results should I look for in the leakdown test?

The Vlave covers i have only have one spot for a breather.... we have it routed up to the inside of the flame arrestor. Thinking about drilling another hole for breather in the other cover.

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

You need one open breather or a hose routed to flame arrester. The other should be a PCV valve with hose to base of carb.

Some just run open breathers on both valve covers. Personally I like to run a PCV with closed engine compartments. Helps with fumes.

Oh yea the shorting it one quart will not fix it if it has excessive pressure. You are correct.

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Hmmmm ok... thinking about swaping back to a 185 thermostat and cook in the rings. Any suggestions? I would do that of course after I do the leakdown test..

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Be nice to know what rings. Motor needs to warm but it really depends on type of rings that were installed as for seating theam. My expierence with the moly rings is they either seat real quick or not at all. Usually because of wrong or improper honing - finish. New moly rings get installed dry no oil.
I run a 160 stat and it warms to 170 if I run it hard for a while. 180 might be worth a try and it will keep your builder happy at that. Shouldn't hurt anything.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out. I gotta-go 4:30am comes early. :D

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

paradigm, thanks for all the info!!! Anyone else? MORE INPUT PLEASE!! :drink:

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Chrome moly rings ? Do they make these anymore ? :eek: Lol. :D

Worst rings to seat in ever, that's why they are a thing of the past. Long time ago 'past' I mean.

Today's rings marked 'moly' are not chrome moly. Totally different material and construction.

With proper machining/clearances, today's moly rings set-in super fast. Put it this way, if they are not seating well within fire-up to a minute or so, installation or machining/clearancing was way off.

Last tid bit with rings, typically the higher the cylinder/combustion psi the more the rings will push out against the cyl wall and seat faster/better. To increase cylinder psi in a running engine is easy - give the engine more throttle. :D

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

There I go showing my age :eek:
I actually never used chrome molly rings, heard they wore the walls bad. I just remember hearing people bragging about building a performance motor and chrome molly rings being one of the bragging points, they werent building daily drivers. Thanks for the info SB.

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Merc carb motors use a 142 deg. thermostat. Rings seat fine with that. They used to use 2 breathers without pcv valves on the 400 and 420hp. The builder may have done a poor job on the cyl. walls or installed some rings improperly. Both have happened to me

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

I watched your video and am wondering about the amount of smoke/steam coming out of that engine. Is it smoke? It seems to linger a bit. If it is, that engine has a serious problem with the bores/rings/pistons. Don't even bother running it anymore, just get it torn down to find out why it's burning so much oil. If it's just steam, something doesn't seem right. I have never seen that much steam coming out of an engine on a hose. By the way, you really shouldn't put it back on the water until your problem is solved. It is only a matter of time until you go a little too far and run enough oil out of the engine to damage it. I am sure that your mechanic is telling you to disregard this internet crap and that if you give the rings more time your problem will magically go away, but something just isn't right. Ask yourself one question, have you ever seen a brand new engine make that much smoke or blow oil out of the dipstick like this before? I haven't.

Rene

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

I had the same problem with my boat after rebuild. I bought new EMI valve covers with tall breaters on both sides. Problem solved. :D At least with mine. Good luck !!!

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Rene,

It is steam out of the engine / exhaust.... at the point of the video, the engine is warm. Thanks for the info... the engine runs great and has almost no smoke (the carb is a little rich so it smoke at the high end when rev)

I have heard this more then once too and I am going to vent mine better in hopes of this fixing the problem.

ALL: Good info!! Keep it comming.

Right now I am going to vent the motor better (breathers) and do a leakdown test to see if my rings are giving me hell.

What do I need to look for on the leakdown test? How much leak is acceptable? How much is too much? Will it be the same on all pistons?

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Hello,
a quick look on the internet revals this
http://www.dsmgrrrl.com/FAQs/leakdown.htm

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

All great input. If you are going to run it and assuming you are not already running this oil, I would change out oil to rotella 15-40. This is a desiel oil but good for marine engines in my .02, particularly at breakin. If by chance you are running something like a 5w 30 synthetic now, you should get a better result with the rotella. I would try 4 qts total as a test.

Couple other thoughts; breather removed, how much air is coming out?
Do you smell burning oil? Windage problems will result in burnt oil smell due to splashing on the piston skirts.
And yes, I have had to wire my dipsticks in on new engines before so don't be shy about doing that. Just make sure you are getting ventilation out the breather.

BT :cool:

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Likewise, I put Teagues on mine but tried to use automotive style beathers. These breathers only take a 3/8" hose instead of the 5/8" Merc uses for their breathers. Wasn't enough area in the small hose for the crankcase to vent through. Would idle fine. As soon as both engines were under load they began puking oil. Went to 2 push in "Mopar" style breathers with larger hose barbs so I could use larger breather hose. Problem solved.

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Hahaha!!! You guys are giving me hope!! Maybe... just maybe... I wont have to pull this SOB back out and start all over. I am going to do a leak down test this weekend!! :evilb:

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

If the leakdown test shows good just pull your breathers all the way out of the valve covers and take it for a short run with the engine hatch up/off. If it doesn't push the sticks out then, you will know there is some type of restriction in the breathers. Do the breathers you are using have the filter material in them? Do your valve covers have baffles in them? If there is filter media in the breathers and the valve covers do not have internal baffles, the filter media in the breathers will quickly become soaked with oil which then restricts the engine's ability to breath. Capiche? :D

I hope that is your problem and that you don't have internal issues. Always look to the simple things first.

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

HAHAHA IT WORKED!!!! Did a leak down and no significant leak on any pistons... I installed a PCV check valve and the engine completely changed its behavior! Too 1/2 quart of oil out and took her to the lake... WOW that boat runs!! Thanks everyone for the help and support!!!!!!

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Good to hear Longrange..we need running pics/vid now! :evilb:

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

I am going to detail her and put all the interior back together... As soon as she is done... I will post up pics and vid!

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

OUTSTANDING! There is nothing worse than putting so much work, time and money into something only to find out that you have to start over. I am glad that it worked out for you.

Rene

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

That is great to hear. Glad it all worked out! :drink:

Re: Help!! Oil shooting out of the dipstick!
 

Again... you guys are awesome!!! Thank you so much for all the help... at some level OSO has helped me with every step of my boat!

My hydro steering...
My New engine...
My trim tabs..
Outdrive removal and install...
Everything... you guys are all great!!! :drink: :drink: :drink:

Now I just have clean up to do... my Tach isnt reading right... I can hit the rev limiter (set to 5k right now) but the tac only reads 3100 RPM. Temp gauge is not reading above 100 except rarely... Have a bit of a leak on the hydro steering fittings... and I need to figure out how to use my tabs.

Well with a ~500HP engine... and a Mirage 25p prop... it feels like it still has more in her if I play with the pitch some. Do you guys use your tabs at speed?