steve i am looking for a way to monitor for change i have a boost ,fuel pressure ,water temp &pressure gauge a intercooler water pressure , oil pressure and temp gauge was just looking for prev.maint monitoring the 2 eng not tuning they run great plugs are perfect but haaard to get to on a daytona

gentlemen,
i undrstand your points in all respect... justtrying to point outwhatthe litteral truth ofthe science is vs how it gets applied in the real world. now ben first.... i hearwhat you are saying... but does it make any sense ? can all three shops be wrong ? maybe... and the only way you know is look at the egts... some shops will use extra fuel as a combustion chamber cooling mechanism so that they can pump the timing and make good numbers on the dyno without melting the pistons... it works... and then when you get it home at normal revs etc its rich as hell... thats why the egts are so important ... once that map is established at real numbers in therevrange where you are goingto actually use the boat, then, frankly short of your engine bay being on mars or something the jetting should really be close... it isn't rocket science and it isn't voodoo. if the dyno work is done properly, you should be very very close. if its NOT... then you legitimately have to determine why... because thats not the way its supposed to work and yourdyno time/money is being wasted ifthose are the kind ofresults you are getting. oh by the way... ya know on the dyno, they run the water temps ( or should) at 180 ... if your boat is efi and you run it cold ... or even if its carb and you run it cold, it will make it rich as well...

as for recording, there are a number ofdata aquisition systems available... i like the stack stuff... not cheap but you can record every parameter there is at a monster sample rate and get the results directly on a pc. and you can KNOW ...not guess... KNOW what every egt, every temp, every lambda... every EVERYTHING there is , is at every rpm for an hour or more under every load you care to put it thru...

its how i did the cars and it flat out eliminated the guess work across the board... paid for itself in the first 30 minutes... and as soon as i get my act together, one will go on the boat as well...

As to the real world results in the boat, all three shops were either wrong, didn't really care, or were focused on there own agenda.
Maybe it was the engine owner that send the wrong message.
Steve, try testing a $350 o2 sensor in your boat and you might experience a better AFR mouse trap.

I had posted the following on another thread, I guess I should go back
to where I started:

Ok, following the advise above, I sent back the Edelbrock O2, and purchased the Innovate with the RPM Converter, a much more technical piece of machinery. Tested today, engine ran 12.4:1 to 12.9:1 from Idle to WOT, down loaded info to verify. Then I dropped 2 jet sizes front and rear, meter showed a slighter leaner mixture of 13.5:1 to 13.9:1, also downloaded to verify, had a 1 or 2 second spike to 14.2 during a WOT run of 3 minutes. I picked up 2mph and around 200 rpm. Looks like I'm still in a safe range what do you experts think. Not trying to get myself in trouble just trying to get the best of what I have.

Eddie

Are yoy running a power valve? If so, when it opens you should see a richer mixture. You might running with a vacumn gauge.

Has a power valve, new AED "tricked out" carb, Jets were 76/90 changed to 74/88. tested on cool 60 day with very low humidity, Destin should be hot
and humid, may wait to test there before making any changes.

well... long experience has proven to me conclusively the basic engineering axiom that your instrumentation means noting at all unlss it is calibrated against a known standard. in this case, what YOUR motor wants for a KNOWN AFR for a given set of repeatable conditions... i.e. a properly executed dyno run. just look at what is written above... AFRS all over the place for different application with the occassional spike to 10 % lean... when you were looking at it....

my only point is... you are plugging in an instrument that isn't calibrated against any standard that is relative to your application... and suggesting that you can use the information in a critical area of tuning... not wise in my opinion...

i mean... suppose you were handed an oil pressure gage with the dial in nuctenflagons and you had 112 of them at 4500 rpm... would you stop or say " hey... thats perfect "

same deal... all you are looking at are numbers... and relative to your specific application, unless that instrument was on the dyno when when you had genuine and real info to calibrate it against, you don't have any more real information upon which to make a decision than you would if it was belching black smoke or pinging so loud you could hear it

im not saying they are bad... just that you may be relying on something thats not telling you what you think it is... and i would be VERY careful... especially on a high compression or blower motor. on an 8 to 1 , you probably can't really hurt yourself... at 9.1 w/ a blower you can be so wrong , so FAST you can't believe it.

I think you may simply not be making your point properly. At least I hope that is the case.

After working in a multi-million dollar dynomometer lab for over a decade I can certainly agree that your instruments have to be properly calibrated, but beyond that you lose me.

Are you saying that a production Bosch wide range O2 sensor using the production Bosch calibration chip in the readout is not calibrated with sufficient accuracy for calibrating offshore boat motors??? If you are then I'd have to disagree.

Are you saying that using a wide range O2 is less accurate and convenient than simply relying on plug readings??? I hope you aren't.

Are you saying that you can always setup the dyno to exactly replicate the conditions in the vehicle?? You're probably right to a degree, especially if the coolant temps aren't right, but I used to run a 20 million dollar facility that was setup to replicate the real world exactly, right down to the temps and pressures on the top of a 10,000ft mountain pass, and we still had issues with matching up to the vehicle.

Bottom line is that the current crop of wide range O2 sensors are the greatest advance in hot rodding in decades!! They work and they work well. I will always dyno my motors when it's an option (with wide range O2's as well as EGTs), but for "on vehicle" tunning, there's nothing that compares.

stevesxm
I have a question here for you. Are You saying you need to calibrate a Wide band O2? I have only popped in and out of this thread ans just scanned the thread.
Since a wide band O2 is a controlled sensor (held at 450mV) and it referenced to available ambient air. The A/F ratio is directly mapped to the current need to maintain that .45V how would you calibrate it?

what i am simply saying is that i would install the 02 sensors in the exhaust, on the dyno and map those numbers against the egts. i used the egts to determine what i really wanted to happen. then when the motor was installed, i could record or watch the lambda and get a very accurate feel for what the egts were and, as such what i wanted to happen. no... i am not suggesting you are calibrating the device itself... only determining a look up table of values that are directly relative to what you know the motor is really doing in the cumbustion chamber at that moment.

and at this point i am genuinely sorry i mentioned it.