Melting Intercoolers
 

Anyone ever melt there core Please tell me.
I would also like to know why you think it occured.
Even if it happend to your friend. Please explain.

All opinions Please.

Engine builders are welcome also!





Please Respond.
Thanks in advance
Gerry

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

Was a Cupernickel core?

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

The most common reason for a core to have a "melt down" is do to lack of water volume. Using a good sea strainer for the intercooler seperatly will help prevent this from occuring.

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

It has not happend to me.

I run the Cupra cores.
But I have heard that it can happen to them as well.

Whats your take on this JC. What causes it?


Thanks for the reply.
Gerry

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

Right Dean!

This is why I am taken your advice on the dedicated
water pump Stage.

What else do ya think causes this catastrophic event?

As Always Dean Thank You.
Gerry

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

Excessive heat from the blower can melt a core and like Dean said poor water flow.Even with proper water flow you can melt a core if you spin a blower past its efficient range.A roots style blower, I wouldnt run past say 12 lbs. of boost
[at a 14-71].The smaller the blower the more heat.An 8-71 blower I wouldnt run beyond 8 lbs.I have seen cores melt from the underside due to reversion problems.Cupernickel cores can withstand the most heat.

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

After conversing with engine builders
and also the leading Supercharger builders. I am hearing such different opinions on this.


Allow me to think out loud.

Blower disharge temperture would have to exceed 800
degrees to melt alum. Never mind copper.

So what is the cause?

Does it seem to happen more on Carb Deals?

If yes Then lets look at fuel. Where do we measure
the fuel pressure ? At the Fuel rail right.
So lets say that the Super charger has the ability to
draw the fuel from the bowl that the 4 little .130
needle and seats cant actualy keep up. The fuel pressure
still reads good on the dash. Got me?
So it has been mentioned to me that the cause of this melting
is a actual backfire igniting a fire above the intercooler.
and the lack of fuel is the cause of this.

Does this sound possible?

Or should I just go back on the couch like everyone else
is with my pounding headache.

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

Yes but Jeff do you beleave a Blower can actualy produce
that kind of discharge temp?

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

Fuel is what cools the blower.If a motor leans out it can shoot blower discharge temps greatly.Blower cavitation makes tremendous heat and is probably the culprit.Fuel volume is very important.You can have pressure and no volume which could lean an engine.Pre-ignition can flame back and melt a core.

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

Now Im getting somewhere!

So how can I make certain we have enough fuel.
How about dual needle and seat carbs or atleast .150
titanium seats.

This was one of the big boy supercharger gurus suggested.
( I think ya know who) Every one compares theres to his.:cool:

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

Something to consider look at what another leading supercharger company has done to there supercharger.
I beleave looking at this. This port is to releave the boost at
low Blower speed high engine vacuum.

Pretty cool


This should help with the heat.

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

I've seen this problem occur during start up, mild backfires igniting raw fuel soaked intercoolers usually due to fouled spark plugs, leaking intake valves or just out of tune. Charge temperatures usually never reach hot enough to melt aluminum.

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

What kind of fuel system in the boat?I dont think duel needles are necessary but the bigger needle and seats help

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

Check these out only thing I could find yet.

I have not called CSU on these yet.
Would need 1250 dominator equivelents though.


Fuel Aeromotive 2000s with 10 feeds 8 returns.
-8 feeding each bowl

Considering the belt driven Aeros. The 2000,s do move some fuel though.

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

I have melted one on a stock Merc 900SC, and this is what is believed to occur. I had ran the boat the day before and everything was great. I got up the next morning headed to a pokerrun. After pulling out of my marinia I started to get on plane and I noticed the motor coughing a little and then it died. When I restarted it, which didn't go as easy as usual, I noticed ALOT of steam coming out of one tail. This concerned me so I Idled back to the dock, pulled the Core and knew something wasn't right. I rigged a way to pressurize the core but it wouldn't because of all the holes from being melted.
This was a standard alluminum Lee core. Most everyone agreed that SOMEHOW I had ignited fuel pooled on the intercooler which melted it. Hope this helps.:(

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

Belt driven pumps are generally needed after 1200HP.I found that out this year:(

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

Those CSU Bowls look like they may bolt right on my King Demons.

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

Sorry to Hear this Michael, But this is the kind of first hand
info I am looking for. What chargers were you running at the time?

Thanks for the repsonse.

Gerry

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

1071 Mooninghams, 8#s of boost, Completely stock Merc.

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

Point taken!

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

The way I have been plumbing my intercoolers was
force fed. Meaning no flow at idle and I never had a problem.
I am wondering if when you dedicate a stage to the intercooler then feed it water at idle. Perhaps this causes
the fuel to puddle and then ignites.

Presto how do ya want ya steaks done!

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

That is what I was told. Supposedly the EFI do fine with pressure but the Carbs don't do as well and like to be force feed or only minimal h2o at idle.
I have seen and used some setups that were force feed but also with a small -6 coming off of the belhousing coolers for a little water at idle.:D

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

So who would you say makes a better intercooler for a roots blower that is carbureted? KE? SuperChiller? TheBlowerShop? Who?

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

I would run the cupranickel cores KE's and whipples got them.

The baddest Intercooler is the Whipple MOAC.

It stands for Mother of All Coolers:evilb:
Real Wide in the hips:eek:

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

This is my dilema. I have had excellent results with the
non "force feed method" But Most of the Big engine guys
are now running a stage just for the chiller.

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

Knot-right, KE did some comparitive tests on his dyno a while back. You might give him a call and see if he would share with you the differences he saw. I think his package may be hard to beat.

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

Actualy I have had several conversations with KE over the last few days in regards to the intercooling plumbing.
I was told he dedicates a single stage of the water pump to the intercooler to run at all times.

I stand with the whipple.

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

I have run my own boat both ways.I have run it force fed and with a seapump stage pushing it through.The idle quality on the force fed is great.I have not had any issues with my intercooler and it wasnt the Cupernickel core.Both carbureted and at 10 lbs. or more.

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

Knot-rite I was actually refering to the hp generation and efficiency of his core vs the competition. I have KE coolers and they are pressure fed. How you supply it with water is decision. I know KE likes to use a single stage but I am like you and prefer to restrict flow at idle.

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

Jeff Last season the old setup was 10-71 Monneys overdriven
at 18% with the Lee intercoolers and cupra cores.
Force fed Intercooler.
Ran flawless

So why Screw with it? Because of some of the horror
storys of PSI,s Eating Intercoolers.
I,m thinking the PSI,s need the xtra cooling at low engine speeds (high vacuum). Thats why whipple added the
Blower bleed ports. (screw charger)
I have been instructed by Roger at PSI to start anywhere
from 35 to 45 percent over to achieve what the mooneys
were running. (12LBS).
Roger stated that the melting of the intercooler is directly
related to Sucking the carb bowls dry.

After diassembly I noticed the intercooler was showing
discoloration towards the rear. This was with the Monneys.

Here is a picture with the new PSI adapter plate.

I know quit my whining and bolt it on and Just get Ratman
to throttle it!:evilb:

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

I was at my engine builders last night picking up some pieces for paint and I asked him his thoughts on this. The motor he was working on had the the Whipple MOAC and also had a few dark spots on the core. He said they were fuel stains. I run Av gas and also see some dark blue stains on my cores too. Is this what you are seeing? I run the Cupra cores also and he said you would need some extreme heat to melt those babies down. The engines I were looking at were from "Predator" the 40 Skater here in Tucson. I think they dedicate a stage for these motors although I am not sure. I force feed mine and have had no problems.

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

There is no way that blower discharge temps melted a core. I don't think that the blower itself would survive the temps required to melt aluminum. There was definitely a fire in the plenum. Corrosion could also be a culprit for perforations.

Rene

Re: Melting Intercoolers
 

:D :D :D Turn your idle speed up & your fuel presure down ! you are fuel soaking the core.

steam
 

could a leaking innercooler cause tons of steam out the exhaust ?

Knot-right
I have melted one of the Whipple cupro nickel cores. I arrived at the conclusion that there was a plenum fire. The boat was under proped and the customer paid no attention and put it on the limiter. He knew it was under proped, but it kept going faster, so he kept the throttles pinned. When the rev limiter kicked in and started mis-firing, a plug obviously fired when the intake valve was open, thus lighting the fuel in the intake plenum. With 10 65# injectors and 50# of fuel pressure, there was plenty fuel to light. I took the core out and it was completely destroyed. I held a propane torch to it to see what it would do. I think propane burns around 800 degrees and it did nothing. I was told by Dustin that it takes almost 2000 degrees to melt that core.Whatever it takes, that one got about ten degrees over that, because it was trashed. Don't know if that helps. I believe and was told that is the only way to melt one. Who knows!!!!

Bingo!

Blower cavitation??? BLOWER CAVITATION??? Blower cavitation causing heat?..... What the hell are you pushing through the blower?... Water???Even water cavitation doesn't cause heat. When a propellor cavitates there is a decrease in pressure and a low pressure area is created in front of the prop. If you are confusing the "boiling" action of the water in cavitation... it isn't from heat... it is from lack of pressure. Water boils at room tempurature in a vacuum. A roots type blower is nothing more than a pump. It pumps air with a fuel mixture.. How could it cavitate? If you close the throttle plates on the intake the blower doesn't cavitate... it is running in a low pressure atmosphere. If it were running in a vacuum there wouldn't be any resistance to the motor by the blower...Here is a simple example of what happens when you cut off the air to a blower. Stick your hand over the intake hose of your vacuum cleaner... do you hear the vacuum motor slow down?... Or do you hear the motor speed up?... IT SPEEDS UP, because it is running in a low pressure atmosphere and the blades aren't pressurizing anything. Heat in a blower is a direct result of the air being compressed. If you take pressure off a gas... you have a DECREASE in temp... not an increase. If there is an increase in tempurature of the blower components, it's because of friction and the heat isn't dissapated into the air being pushed into the engine. Air rushes into the blower on the intake side because of atmospheric pressure... It exits on the discharge side at a higher pressure and tempurature due to compression. If you take a volume of air and compress it to half it's volume... you are going to have double the heat. . . Am I the only person that didn't fail high school physics?

I can give the # for Marv from the Blower Shop and he can tell you too.;)

Where is the ole Boost Daddy anyway? Marvelous get out of the shadows and set us straight:D

If discoloration on the innercooler is on the exit side/bottom it could be reversion,too much overlap in the cam,also low port velocity at idle.Like the exhaust charge coming back up into the intake..


I know Dustin Whipple has some expearace with some innercoolers that were melted from the bottom side.I know of 3 that were on Whipple quad set up .I think it was cam related??? Maybe he will chime in as to what caused it and what can cause one to melt:eek: