To Force More Air or Not
02-22-2007, 11:36 PM
#11
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Thanks for the input
Hey Steve,
Is that your boat?
I understand that the standard Bravo I was beefed up a little in our '01 boats. Is there an upgrade from that to the XR specs?
I have 3 daughters and my wife and we boat together every time and sometimes take a guest. Safety is the MOST important factor. I will do the steering first. I've thought the partial hydraulic will be a lot better than the steel tiller into the aluminum drive housing.
We tube with the kids. So, I want parent fun but want to keep it simple. I've seen the raylar kit here on this site and thought about that etc. I just don't know what the best option is for getting more speed reliably. My father in law had a 42 fountain with 572's running 7lbs of boost on Lake Powell for years. The boat was called the Thunderboldt. Was great fun to drive at lake powell and mead. But that was his only hobby and he spent TONS. Boat ran 100+. I'm thinking of trying to get 80 and that is it.
Anyway - I do this every winter and end up with 65.8 and a factory motor due to indicision - Wife is actually on the speed side.
I need a plan.
Brad
Is that your boat?
I understand that the standard Bravo I was beefed up a little in our '01 boats. Is there an upgrade from that to the XR specs?
I have 3 daughters and my wife and we boat together every time and sometimes take a guest. Safety is the MOST important factor. I will do the steering first. I've thought the partial hydraulic will be a lot better than the steel tiller into the aluminum drive housing.
We tube with the kids. So, I want parent fun but want to keep it simple. I've seen the raylar kit here on this site and thought about that etc. I just don't know what the best option is for getting more speed reliably. My father in law had a 42 fountain with 572's running 7lbs of boost on Lake Powell for years. The boat was called the Thunderboldt. Was great fun to drive at lake powell and mead. But that was his only hobby and he spent TONS. Boat ran 100+. I'm thinking of trying to get 80 and that is it.
Anyway - I do this every winter and end up with 65.8 and a factory motor due to indicision - Wife is actually on the speed side.
I need a plan.
Brad
02-23-2007, 06:15 AM
#12
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If 80mph is your ultimate goal, go for twin ram full hydraulic steering.
__________________
Patrick
Patrick
02-23-2007, 01:51 PM
#13
Brad,
You have many options for that motor but a Raylar kit is not one of them.
They are only for the 496 8.1L motor.
Just one last note, to hit 80 with this hull is going to take some power that I'm not sure you can generate naturally aspirated without some "major" mods to the existing power plant.
Dave
You have many options for that motor but a Raylar kit is not one of them.
They are only for the 496 8.1L motor.
Just one last note, to hit 80 with this hull is going to take some power that I'm not sure you can generate naturally aspirated without some "major" mods to the existing power plant.
Dave
02-23-2007, 02:28 PM
#14
21 and 42 footers
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I considered an engine package that took the 502 mag to 525-535 HP on my last boat but can't remember which builder had the kit. Ended up selling the boat because I wanted more LOA.
It takes 20HP for 1 MPH and let's assume the Nordic is a little better than that at 17 HP per MPH....it would still take an additional 255 HP to hit 80 in that boat. If you did it, it wouldn't be for long because the drive wouldn't last the summer. Mods that get it over 70 would be reasonable but steering is still recommended.
At 425 hrs I wouldn't consider a blower without a complete re-fresh...unless you like doing things twice.
Steering will be a must if your kids are as important as you say. (I have 3 little ones too)
It takes 20HP for 1 MPH and let's assume the Nordic is a little better than that at 17 HP per MPH....it would still take an additional 255 HP to hit 80 in that boat. If you did it, it wouldn't be for long because the drive wouldn't last the summer. Mods that get it over 70 would be reasonable but steering is still recommended.
At 425 hrs I wouldn't consider a blower without a complete re-fresh...unless you like doing things twice.
Steering will be a must if your kids are as important as you say. (I have 3 little ones too)
02-23-2007, 04:56 PM
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I procharged a Baja272 and picked up 13 mph, 65 to 78, after exhausts, cam, ported/polished heads_intake and numerous computer reflashes. Procharger alone picked up 7 mph. Procharger is somewhat easier on drives than the Whipple as it makes torque only as rpm increases. Whipples torque comes on strong coming on plane which is what eats your drive with a big single engine boat. I did not break a drive in 3 years with a Procharger.
Procharger intercooler is aluminum and will corrode through in 1.5 years in brackish water, been there done that. New ones are $900 in Y2K $. Procharger is easy to install especially if you remove the motor for refreshing. No engine issues with the Procharger except the fuel pump fragged and spit aluminum into the injectors. Easy fix was to put a fuel filter on the pump outlet and wire the pump with big soldered wires.
With Procharger, engine rebuild, exhausts, single ram steering I spent $10K or $770/mph doing all the work myself. Not a good investment but I could shock a lot of 25-30' single engine boats so that was fun.
Procharger intercooler is aluminum and will corrode through in 1.5 years in brackish water, been there done that. New ones are $900 in Y2K $. Procharger is easy to install especially if you remove the motor for refreshing. No engine issues with the Procharger except the fuel pump fragged and spit aluminum into the injectors. Easy fix was to put a fuel filter on the pump outlet and wire the pump with big soldered wires.
With Procharger, engine rebuild, exhausts, single ram steering I spent $10K or $770/mph doing all the work myself. Not a good investment but I could shock a lot of 25-30' single engine boats so that was fun.
02-23-2007, 04:59 PM
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OOPs forgot there was also two or three props purchased during that time. Install procharger, buy a prop, buy another prop cause only gained 7 mph. Rebuild motor with improvements, new prop too small so buy another prop. Can't remember if that was in the $10K or not.
02-23-2007, 07:55 PM
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Hey Steve,
Is that your boat?
I understand that the standard Bravo I was beefed up a little in our '01 boats. Is there an upgrade from that to the XR specs?
I have 3 daughters and my wife and we boat together every time and sometimes take a guest. Safety is the MOST important factor. I will do the steering first. I've thought the partial hydraulic will be a lot better than the steel tiller into the aluminum drive housing.
We tube with the kids. So, I want parent fun but want to keep it simple. I've seen the raylar kit here on this site and thought about that etc. I just don't know what the best option is for getting more speed reliably. My father in law had a 42 fountain with 572's running 7lbs of boost on Lake Powell for years. The boat was called the Thunderboldt. Was great fun to drive at lake powell and mead. But that was his only hobby and he spent TONS. Boat ran 100+. I'm thinking of trying to get 80 and that is it.
Anyway - I do this every winter and end up with 65.8 and a factory motor due to indicision - Wife is actually on the speed side.
I need a plan.
Brad
Is that your boat?
I understand that the standard Bravo I was beefed up a little in our '01 boats. Is there an upgrade from that to the XR specs?
I have 3 daughters and my wife and we boat together every time and sometimes take a guest. Safety is the MOST important factor. I will do the steering first. I've thought the partial hydraulic will be a lot better than the steel tiller into the aluminum drive housing.
We tube with the kids. So, I want parent fun but want to keep it simple. I've seen the raylar kit here on this site and thought about that etc. I just don't know what the best option is for getting more speed reliably. My father in law had a 42 fountain with 572's running 7lbs of boost on Lake Powell for years. The boat was called the Thunderboldt. Was great fun to drive at lake powell and mead. But that was his only hobby and he spent TONS. Boat ran 100+. I'm thinking of trying to get 80 and that is it.
Anyway - I do this every winter and end up with 65.8 and a factory motor due to indicision - Wife is actually on the speed side.
I need a plan.
Brad
Sounds like you are a lucky guy with the wife and kids. AZSM has a complete 572" Chevrolet with fuel injection priced reasonably, that shoud get you into the 80s. You will have to add hydraulic steering and I recomend trim tabs for low speed operation like skiing. They will also help you plane with heavy loads and keep you nose down at speed in rough water. I have a tab thread on the Nordic forum.
Your drive can be upgraded to XR specs. There are several rigging tricks that these boats like discussed extensively on the Nordic forum.
AZSM also has superchargers for your motor, and mod packages I mentioned above. www.azspeed-marine.com
There are many more engine builders to consider. You'll see some interesting stuff in the classifieds.
Regards,
Steve
Last edited by Steve Zuckerman; 02-23-2007 at 10:55 PM.
02-24-2007, 11:18 AM
#18
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Reading between the lines I think I know what your asking,your refresh with good valves and misc parts will quickly hit 3-4 grand,the blower kit 6 grand and by the time you break a drive and upgrade it plus put the full hyd steering to the helm,props,ignition,bigger oil cooler and lines etc you will easily spend 20,000$. If thats not in your budget you will really be setting yourself up for dissapointment,these projects quickly spiral out of control and if your not fully committed up front you'll end up dissaponted when you start missing boating due to broken parts or a broken budget.There are a lot of things that go along with supercharging your motor that you need to budget into the equation to be realistic, I say this because I have done exactly what your thinking of doing and then some,Smitty
Bob
03-04-2007, 10:47 AM
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Brad,
My Heat is an '00 (stepped hull, same as yours). OEM power was 454Mag/MPI. It ran ~65-66 (on speedo, never GPS'd it, but no doubt it was actually slower). I put a Whipple on it after Merc warranty expired. The install was very straightforward & I can't say enough about the support from Dustin...1st rate in all respects. However, I did have to move my back seat forward about 1.5 inches & cut out a small section in the hatch (where it meets the seatback), then fab a filler section for the hatch so that it sealed with the seatback again properly. I don't know if the newer Whipple kits still have this clearance issue on the Heat. I also went with EMI Thunder exhaust at the same time. Dustin advised B1 28" prop & that seems to be right on (though I'm sure with enough time/$ a bit better performance could be had). Boat ran great on 1st startup after install; speedo now hits 80, but GPS is showing ~75-76. So, I did see about 14mph gain, but didn't get it to real 80 (my target) & from everything I've read on Nordic forum, it takes more HP than I'm making to get there. I don't know if a Whipple'd 502 will be enough either, but you'll be close. Been running the stock B1 drive (which is not quite as stout as yours, being an '00 instead of '01) with drive shower & new Redline Shockproof gearlube every year with no problems to-date. As others have said, keep it <3000rpm until on plane, & work throttle correctly in rough water & the B1 can live. I can say with no hesitation that the Heat with more power is MUCH more fun, & the acceleration with the Whipple (once on plane) is simply outstanding & worth it even if you don't break 80. Lots of great info on the Nordic forum. Good luck if you decide to go for it!
Regards,
Jeff
My Heat is an '00 (stepped hull, same as yours). OEM power was 454Mag/MPI. It ran ~65-66 (on speedo, never GPS'd it, but no doubt it was actually slower). I put a Whipple on it after Merc warranty expired. The install was very straightforward & I can't say enough about the support from Dustin...1st rate in all respects. However, I did have to move my back seat forward about 1.5 inches & cut out a small section in the hatch (where it meets the seatback), then fab a filler section for the hatch so that it sealed with the seatback again properly. I don't know if the newer Whipple kits still have this clearance issue on the Heat. I also went with EMI Thunder exhaust at the same time. Dustin advised B1 28" prop & that seems to be right on (though I'm sure with enough time/$ a bit better performance could be had). Boat ran great on 1st startup after install; speedo now hits 80, but GPS is showing ~75-76. So, I did see about 14mph gain, but didn't get it to real 80 (my target) & from everything I've read on Nordic forum, it takes more HP than I'm making to get there. I don't know if a Whipple'd 502 will be enough either, but you'll be close. Been running the stock B1 drive (which is not quite as stout as yours, being an '00 instead of '01) with drive shower & new Redline Shockproof gearlube every year with no problems to-date. As others have said, keep it <3000rpm until on plane, & work throttle correctly in rough water & the B1 can live. I can say with no hesitation that the Heat with more power is MUCH more fun, & the acceleration with the Whipple (once on plane) is simply outstanding & worth it even if you don't break 80. Lots of great info on the Nordic forum. Good luck if you decide to go for it!
Regards,
Jeff
03-04-2007, 11:22 AM
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Brad,
My Heat is an '00 (stepped hull, same as yours). OEM power was 454Mag/MPI. It ran ~65-66 (on speedo, never GPS'd it, but no doubt it was actually slower). I put a Whipple on it after Merc warranty expired. The install was very straightforward & I can't say enough about the support from Dustin...1st rate in all respects. However, I did have to move my back seat forward about 1.5 inches & cut out a small section in the hatch (where it meets the seatback), then fab a filler section for the hatch so that it sealed with the seatback again properly. I don't know if the newer Whipple kits still have this clearance issue on the Heat. I also went with EMI Thunder exhaust at the same time. Dustin advised B1 28" prop & that seems to be right on (though I'm sure with enough time/$ a bit better performance could be had). Boat ran great on 1st startup after install; speedo now hits 80, but GPS is showing ~75-76. So, I did see about 14mph gain, but didn't get it to real 80 (my target) & from everything I've read on Nordic forum, it takes more HP than I'm making to get there. I don't know if a Whipple'd 502 will be enough either, but you'll be close. Been running the stock B1 drive (which is not quite as stout as yours, being an '00 instead of '01) with drive shower & new Redline Shockproof gearlube every year with no problems to-date. As others have said, keep it <3000rpm until on plane, & work throttle correctly in rough water & the B1 can live. I can say with no hesitation that the Heat with more power is MUCH more fun, & the acceleration with the Whipple (once on plane) is simply outstanding & worth it even if you don't break 80. Lots of great info on the Nordic forum. Good luck if you decide to go for it!
Regards,
Jeff
My Heat is an '00 (stepped hull, same as yours). OEM power was 454Mag/MPI. It ran ~65-66 (on speedo, never GPS'd it, but no doubt it was actually slower). I put a Whipple on it after Merc warranty expired. The install was very straightforward & I can't say enough about the support from Dustin...1st rate in all respects. However, I did have to move my back seat forward about 1.5 inches & cut out a small section in the hatch (where it meets the seatback), then fab a filler section for the hatch so that it sealed with the seatback again properly. I don't know if the newer Whipple kits still have this clearance issue on the Heat. I also went with EMI Thunder exhaust at the same time. Dustin advised B1 28" prop & that seems to be right on (though I'm sure with enough time/$ a bit better performance could be had). Boat ran great on 1st startup after install; speedo now hits 80, but GPS is showing ~75-76. So, I did see about 14mph gain, but didn't get it to real 80 (my target) & from everything I've read on Nordic forum, it takes more HP than I'm making to get there. I don't know if a Whipple'd 502 will be enough either, but you'll be close. Been running the stock B1 drive (which is not quite as stout as yours, being an '00 instead of '01) with drive shower & new Redline Shockproof gearlube every year with no problems to-date. As others have said, keep it <3000rpm until on plane, & work throttle correctly in rough water & the B1 can live. I can say with no hesitation that the Heat with more power is MUCH more fun, & the acceleration with the Whipple (once on plane) is simply outstanding & worth it even if you don't break 80. Lots of great info on the Nordic forum. Good luck if you decide to go for it!
Regards,
Jeff
