another "thinking about pro-charging" thread
 

got a 502magmpi with 200 hours

i really like the idea of the m-1sc procharger.

what are some gotcha's?

do i need to change out the exhaust first? (new stock exhaust is on)

is this a self install kit?? (i'm fairly handy with tools)

i see it does NOT require ECM re-programming - i'm not sure i understand why not?

i don't hammer the throttle --so i build up my speed some what slowly - with 200 hours on my 502 -how many hours should i expect it to last? (all things being equal)

the website claims i may see an increase in gas mileage -- is that really true?


thoughts?

what about props? i'm currently spinning a 4 blade 24p and hitting about 5200 max rpm's


Mark

I have a very nice used one overhauled by Procharger only 100hour ago and a fresh water only intercooler with 2 seasons on it.

I will sell it for a very fair price.

You will need a fual pump upgrade and a regulator to properly install any blower on the stock MPI.

what model is it? i'm mainly interested in the SC

I have an m-1 installed on a built up 7.4. Makes lots of power. I would take the exhaust through the transom. I started with stock headers (through hull) and then went to gill. Your internals are good with the stock 502. If you don't modify anything else (including cam) then you can get by with out an ECU change. Talk to C.P. about their ecu up grades for procharger. You should expect at least 4" on the prop. SC is a good choice but the M-1 is ok too. Don't go beyond 5PSI unless you plan on up grading your pistons. You may blow a head gasket or intake so replacing ahead of install is good if you have the option. Get the biggest intercooler. Make sure if you buy used that the system is for your block, brackets ect,

I was thinking about doing my 502 mag and a VERY knowledgeable person said the best way is to install bigger injectors and have the ECM reprogrammed. You would also need bigger fuel pump and fuel lines. A lot less tuning headaches than just cranking up the fuel pressure.

Have running buddy with 2 - 454's mpi's with m1 procharger. This weekend he told me he has almost 300hrs with prochargers on these motors. Both motors are still in good condition and going strong. He would do the same again with out question. I am not sure but I do not think the computer was reprogrammed or injectors changed out.

I blew my first hopped up engine because I did not increase the injectors (stock 7.4 MPI 24#s very bad) and had three changes to the ecu. Your 502 injectors are 42#s which is what I went to with the second hop-up. Dustin Whipple did my "in the boat" ecu re- program and the 42's have a conservative duty cycle with 52#s @ WOT. A solid A/F of 12 throughout. Mag internals with Merlin heads. I would go with the procharger recommendations including replacing the fuel pump with an aeromotive 1000 and insert an external two stage regulator. You should be fine. Keep the revs well away from the rev limiter set point as it cuts fuel (very dangerous).

thanks for the info guy's. I plan on keeping the boost low -- i'm really just looking to gain about 6 or 7mph. Just get me up into the mid 70's with some realiable power.

my exhaust is thru hull -- with silent choice -- however it is the stock exhaust.

I like the m-1sc because it looks like a very clean install and not very intrusive -- if i wanted to take it off later.

oh i meant to ask -- will my bravo 1 hold up to 550'ish hp? keep in mind -- i take it easy on the hole shot.

Do a search on all the P/C threads. You will find all kinds of useful info. Definitely do the fuel system and ecm upgrade or don't do it at all. Keep the boost under 5psi on the stock manifolds. Also replace the head gaskets before you install it. Head studs are recommended. They are badass but it ain't cheap.

I am curious about the stock manifolds. I talked with a guy(used to lease my truck to him) that ran a roots type blower on the same set up I have except I have a procharger. He said any money spent on upgrading the exhaust was a waste of time and money. Believe me when I say if he thought it would help it would have been done. He did alot of experimenting and money was no object! I can see where if you were cammed up where reversion was an issue....but what other advantages and disadvantages are there?

The exhaust is restrictive already. If your trying to cram more fuel in where do you think it's going to go? Headers should be the first thing you do.

i was thinking that as well - -although it seems many people are running stock thru hull exhaust with no problems.

Not for long....

I have a friend with an m-3 on a highly modified 454 and silent choice. 50RPM change W/WO by-pass. So try it as is. Install the procharger with a 3PSI pulley and you will get modest gains and probably not run into any gasket issues, ecu change needs; but you will need to change fuel delivery. As for the bravo, I blew my 1998 III with 560HP. I now run a stock 2006 III with no issues. If you are concerned call Mr. Gadget in Mi. and he will modify your drive. Just try it @ 3PSI and I don't think you will have any trouble. The problems start to develop when you go to, or beyond, 5PSI. It is so easy to change a pulley to get another 75-100HP and that is where the mods start becoming necessary.

I really do wonder how much more restrictive the stock merc manifolds are when exiting straight out the transome. My engine does seem to breath fairly well. I'm only making 7lbs @ 5200RPM(9lb pulley). Kindda wondering about my pistons now. They were supposed to be 8:1....maybe my head chambers were smaller than he suspected. I did a compression check today just for the heck of it and shes pumpin around 155PSI which should be more like 9:1. Will a MSC1 with a 9lb pulley pump enough air at starter speeds to effect the compression readings? I am also curious how many hours you guys would put on an engine before switching over to synthetic?

A procharger won't affect your cranking pressure. It only boost at higher rpm's ,like a turbocharger except it uses a pulley instead of exhaust.
exhaust may not make that much difference. I'm not an expert but that is usually the first place you upgrade.

P.S. Take everything Procharger says with a grain of salt. I can't even imagine how many engines they're responsible for blowing up.

I know what you mean about blowing engines. I have talked with quite a few people. I burp(detonation) under load and your likely to loose it all. But from what I understand this is true of all blown applications. I know my setup will run better if I lean it out abit but not sure if I want to. Yeah...foul a few plugs...mainly when I have to run too slow or idle awhile. I'm running 80 somins in the primaries and 102's in the secondaries.

It's SO importnat to find an experienced installer. Talk to his cutomers about his work in referance to what you want to do. See how many hours they have, what troubles they had, how the installer treated them and was the boat kept clean thoughout the install etc.....

A dyno tuned procharged engine from an experienced installer/builder, from what I have read is the best way to go if you want a procharger.

If you are installing your self, well, that just scares the crap ot me. But thats just me :-)

I ran stock manifolds with a stock cam in my 502 for the first 1 1/2 years it had a blower on it, I switched to lightning headers and saw NO top end difference but it felt slightly stronger in the midrange. If your sticking with the stock cam I would use the extra money headers will cost you to buy other parts you might end up needing,like props,especially a lab finished one. Now once you start going further with your mods,bigger cam,head porting,etc,you will definately need a higher flowing exhaust,Smitty

ps-if your putting a supercharger on with a strict budget,triple what you think its going to cost and you will be close. Guys look at blower kits for 4000-6000$ then they figure 1500$ for exhaust valves,head gaskets,ecu reprograming and small things. That just gets them started. They get the boat running and quickly realize other defieciencys,a drive blows up,engine breaks,several props are needed,full hydraulic steering is very often a necessity,after blowing up a motor you end up with a bigger cam,then the headers are needed,that intial 7500$ can turn into 20,000$ so fast you don't know what happened. Then one of 2 things happens,you stay committed and pour money into your boat so it doesn't end up just sitting and its a complete,safe,reliable package or if its beyond what your willing to spend or can spend the blower ends up for sale and boat gets pieced back to stock. I have been thru this myself and know of countless others too,Smitty

I respect Smitty and all of his experience, but believe me in this application if I had stayed stock @ 3 PSI (maybe even 5) I would have an extra 100HP in a stock engine (running today). I went 6PSI Merlin heads bigger cam, roller rockers, the wrong pistons, exhaust but stock injectors with 3 re-programs. I also blew the drive. The second time around, I put in blower pistons up-graded the injectors all the rest of the goodies and a Dustin Whipple in-the-boat-tune. Runs great now!! Hopefully in the future as well. Tyler Crocket has taken many customers down this road properly and he will tune in your boat.

I agree with you, IF a guy buys a m-1sc and uses the lowest boost pulleys and NEVER takes it a step further he could get out of it fairly cheap. I have actually met 1 guy who did this,it was on a boat exactly like mine,a 272 baja,it ran about 73 mph,chine walked real bad because his wife wouldn't let him buy the hyd steering. Everyone else I have ever talked to has always took it a step further until it becomes quite the ordeal,like in mine and your case:cool-smiley-011: ,I have fun with it,everytime someone ask though I give them the straight up truth so they know what they will probably end up doing. 7 years ago when I first bought my m-3sc and still had a 502 I could have never imagined I would end up where I am today with it,Smitty

what is that saying?? the road to hell is paved with good intentions?? hehehe

my plan is to keep it pretty mild -- i just want in the 75-78mph range. I was very content with that in my pantera.

if i wanted to go much faster -- i don't know that i'd want to do it in a PQ any how -- i'd probably go back to a pantera or some other true deep v.

thanks for all the advice guy's -- i haven't pulled the trigger ye t-- but i'm looking to do this over the winter.

mark

I'm not trying to talk you out of it or scare you,I'm just trying to make sure you realize the true cost of these mods,Smitty

i hear you loud and clear

i just restored a 79 pantera -- two motors....numerous issues...blah blah blah... 45 grand later the boat was worth 15 grand

i'm NOT going down that road again.