Winterizing
10-17-2007, 08:07 PM
#11
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I disagree that dilution with water makes the antifreeze unusable. I believe it makes the freezing and burst points higher...but not nescessarily unusable.
If you truely used 18 gallons of -50 (burst point in copper I presume) it had a glycol concentration of perhaps 30%. That correspands to a freeze point of about 5F. Dilute 18 gallons with say 4 gallons of water from the motor and that gives you about 25% glycol concentration which would have a freeze point of about 10F...I'd guess the burst point to be about -40 or so. Don't hold me to all this...but my GUESS is you are fine.
To be sure, take a sample to someone with a way to measure Ethylene Gycol concentration...I use a refractometer and it correlates really well with -50 and -60 products. Reads a bit pessimistic on -100 product.
If you truely used 18 gallons of -50 (burst point in copper I presume) it had a glycol concentration of perhaps 30%. That correspands to a freeze point of about 5F. Dilute 18 gallons with say 4 gallons of water from the motor and that gives you about 25% glycol concentration which would have a freeze point of about 10F...I'd guess the burst point to be about -40 or so. Don't hold me to all this...but my GUESS is you are fine.
To be sure, take a sample to someone with a way to measure Ethylene Gycol concentration...I use a refractometer and it correlates really well with -50 and -60 products. Reads a bit pessimistic on -100 product.
10-18-2007, 07:58 AM
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Regardless of what the label says, propylene glycol is propylene glycol...no matter what the color.
eet Corporation has an excellent chart on their web site titled "Freezing Points Of Aqueous Glycol Solutions". It charts both propylene and ethylene.
I will bet my life savings (about $1.99 US right now) that the difference between -50, -60, -100 F "rv antifreeze" is the concentration of proplene glycol mixed with WATER!
I believe your reference to "AUTOMOTIVE" antifreeze is ethylene glycol, and it is not "enhanced" by adding water until the concentration exceeds about 70%...which is way high. Usually this stuff is mixed at about 50%. At these concentrations, the freeze point increases in temperature as water is added.
eet Corporation has an excellent chart on their web site titled "Freezing Points Of Aqueous Glycol Solutions". It charts both propylene and ethylene.
I will bet my life savings (about $1.99 US right now) that the difference between -50, -60, -100 F "rv antifreeze" is the concentration of proplene glycol mixed with WATER!
I believe your reference to "AUTOMOTIVE" antifreeze is ethylene glycol, and it is not "enhanced" by adding water until the concentration exceeds about 70%...which is way high. Usually this stuff is mixed at about 50%. At these concentrations, the freeze point increases in temperature as water is added.
10-18-2007, 10:37 AM
#14
Yes, I treated the gas with Stabil
I did a little test yesterday by placing 2 small plastic Gatorade bottles, capped in the freezer at about -10, one with the left over antifreeze from my winterizing that had a little dilution with water and one with straight -50 pink right out of the bottle. In 10 hours both were frozen to a very firm slush. The bottles had not expanded but It's makes me worry about the -50 stuff. I think I'm going to redo the winterizing with -100 RV just to be sure.
I did a little test yesterday by placing 2 small plastic Gatorade bottles, capped in the freezer at about -10, one with the left over antifreeze from my winterizing that had a little dilution with water and one with straight -50 pink right out of the bottle. In 10 hours both were frozen to a very firm slush. The bottles had not expanded but It's makes me worry about the -50 stuff. I think I'm going to redo the winterizing with -100 RV just to be sure.
10-18-2007, 11:55 AM
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Freeze Point vs Burst Point
What you observed was the "freeze point". For "-50F" propylene glycol the freeze point is about +12F. I kid you not!
The "-50F" is the burst point for copper pipe. (The burst point for PVC pipe is about -10F.)
What you observed in your freezer is exactly what should of occured...note the bottles did not distort.
BTW, "-100F" will do the same thing in your freezer...assuming your freezer gets to -60F!!!!!! That is the freeze point of "-100F".
For whatever it's worth, I just winterized my MC HP525SC motors. When done, the propylene glycol antifreeze in the motors measured a freeze point of -4F, which means a burst point in copper pipe of about -65F or so. I'm going sleep just fine knowing this. Unheated storage in upsate New York where below 0F temperatures are common.
I made the measurements with a hand held digital refractometer...my latest $500 toy! (Hand held optical refractometers casn be had for $100 +/-.) Do NOT try to make this measurement with the typical hydrometer intended to be used with ethylene glycol antifreeze typically found in automotive applications.
The "-50F" is the burst point for copper pipe. (The burst point for PVC pipe is about -10F.)
What you observed in your freezer is exactly what should of occured...note the bottles did not distort.
BTW, "-100F" will do the same thing in your freezer...assuming your freezer gets to -60F!!!!!! That is the freeze point of "-100F".
For whatever it's worth, I just winterized my MC HP525SC motors. When done, the propylene glycol antifreeze in the motors measured a freeze point of -4F, which means a burst point in copper pipe of about -65F or so. I'm going sleep just fine knowing this. Unheated storage in upsate New York where below 0F temperatures are common.
I made the measurements with a hand held digital refractometer...my latest $500 toy! (Hand held optical refractometers casn be had for $100 +/-.) Do NOT try to make this measurement with the typical hydrometer intended to be used with ethylene glycol antifreeze typically found in automotive applications.
10-18-2007, 12:29 PM
#16
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BeakBoater, sounds like rrentsch used the left over anti freeze for his test not fluid from the motor. There is no way to be sure whats in his block if he didn't drain it first. Good luck.
Jim
Jim
10-18-2007, 02:16 PM
#17
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Like is being pointed out here by several people, the pink RV antifreeze does freeze!!!! It just does not expand like water. The -50* freezes solid around 0*.
Fortunately, I have a heated garage now and don't winterize with AF.
Fortunately, I have a heated garage now and don't winterize with AF.
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10-18-2007, 03:22 PM
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