Winterizing
 

I winterized my engines this week using the -50 pink stuff. I used a large plastic pan under the drive and poured 18 gals of the pink rv antifreeze in the pan. Then using a pump attached to the muff and 4" hoses attached to the exhaust, I ran each engine with the thermostats removed for about 10 to 15 minutes or until the temp. got to about 130 or 140 degrees, I then fogged the engine until it died. I tried not dilute the antifreeze with water although I'm sure some did. Just wondering how everybody else does it and your thoughts about my procedure.

Did you drain the blocks and manifolds first?
Jim

As soon as any water meets RV antifreeze it will dilute it and make it non useable!! It will freeze !! We have been very lucky lately down here with warmer than normal winters, and if it gets real cold for a while it could freeze.

18 gallons?????????? :eek:

18 gals. Give me about 2" in the pan so the pump would not run dry. The extra I was going to save for next year. No I did not drain anything because the drain plugs in the block and fuel cooler are impossible to get to. I tried to keep as much water from mixing as I could. The boat will stored in southern Indiana so it will not be as cold as up north. How do you guys winterize your boats ?

If I were not draining the engine first, I would have used the cherry red Banfrost 2000 concentrate, straight out of the bottle (5-6 gallons) and set up a system to collect what came out of the drive/exhaust to recirculate it through the engine (since it holds about 5 gallons of water) and let it circulate a couple of times. The resulting mixture would have been about a -50F protection level. I drain my engine/headers and then mix 2 gallon of Banfrost 2000 plus 4 gallons of water in a bucket, sink a bilge pump with a piece of garden hose attached to my muffs and then connect to a 12V jump start pack . Turn the pump on and fire the engine until the bucket is empty ... pretty easy and was cheap to make!

I disagree that dilution with water makes the antifreeze unusable. I believe it makes the freezing and burst points higher...but not nescessarily unusable.

If you truely used 18 gallons of -50 (burst point in copper I presume) it had a glycol concentration of perhaps 30%. That correspands to a freeze point of about 5F. Dilute 18 gallons with say 4 gallons of water from the motor and that gives you about 25% glycol concentration which would have a freeze point of about 10F...I'd guess the burst point to be about -40 or so. Don't hold me to all this...but my GUESS is you are fine.

To be sure, take a sample to someone with a way to measure Ethylene Gycol concentration...I use a refractometer and it correlates really well with -50 and -60 products. Reads a bit pessimistic on -100 product.

Opps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I meant to say PROPYLENE glycol...NOT ethylene.

There is no way to know for sure. The anti freeze hits the thermostat and bypasses out the exhaust. I've change many cracked motors over the years that were winterized this way. Take the time to drain it or pay someone to do it right. There is too much at stake.
Jim

I would definitely drain the block,exhaust,etc.first. Plus it lets out some of the sand and junk you might have got in.
I had a 29 Powerquest enticer,and now my 38 and was always able to get to the drain plugs.It can be a pain working between both engines but its done all the time. Then I run the anti-freeze thru.

I am talking about the "PINK" RV antifreeze, Read the label it says DO NOT MIX WITH WATER!!! The other"AUTOMOTIVE" antifreeze can be mixed and it does enhance the freeze point, But not RV.

Regardless of what the label says, propylene glycol is propylene glycol...no matter what the color.

eet Corporation has an excellent chart on their web site titled "Freezing Points Of Aqueous Glycol Solutions". It charts both propylene and ethylene.

I will bet my life savings (about $1.99 US right now) that the difference between -50, -60, -100 F "rv antifreeze" is the concentration of proplene glycol mixed with WATER!

I believe your reference to "AUTOMOTIVE" antifreeze is ethylene glycol, and it is not "enhanced" by adding water until the concentration exceeds about 70%...which is way high. Usually this stuff is mixed at about 50%. At these concentrations, the freeze point increases in temperature as water is added.

Did you treat your gas as well?

Yes, I treated the gas with Stabil

I did a little test yesterday by placing 2 small plastic Gatorade bottles, capped in the freezer at about -10, one with the left over antifreeze from my winterizing that had a little dilution with water and one with straight -50 pink right out of the bottle. In 10 hours both were frozen to a very firm slush. The bottles had not expanded but It's makes me worry about the -50 stuff. I think I'm going to redo the winterizing with -100 RV just to be sure.

Freeze Point vs Burst Point
 

What you observed was the "freeze point". For "-50F" propylene glycol the freeze point is about +12F. I kid you not!
The "-50F" is the burst point for copper pipe. (The burst point for PVC pipe is about -10F.)

What you observed in your freezer is exactly what should of occured...note the bottles did not distort.

BTW, "-100F" will do the same thing in your freezer...assuming your freezer gets to -60F!!!!!! That is the freeze point of "-100F".

For whatever it's worth, I just winterized my MC HP525SC motors. When done, the propylene glycol antifreeze in the motors measured a freeze point of -4F, which means a burst point in copper pipe of about -65F or so. I'm going sleep just fine knowing this. Unheated storage in upsate New York where below 0F temperatures are common.

I made the measurements with a hand held digital refractometer...my latest $500 toy! (Hand held optical refractometers casn be had for $100 +/-.) Do NOT try to make this measurement with the typical hydrometer intended to be used with ethylene glycol antifreeze typically found in automotive applications.

BeakBoater, sounds like rrentsch used the left over anti freeze for his test not fluid from the motor. There is no way to be sure whats in his block if he didn't drain it first. Good luck.
Jim

Like is being pointed out here by several people, the pink RV antifreeze does freeze!!!! It just does not expand like water. The -50* freezes solid around 0*.

Fortunately, I have a heated garage now and don't winterize with AF.

I also have a heated garage but still winterize. Chit happens and I would not take the chance.

Ditto! All it takes is an ice storm or heavy snow and the power can be out 2 to 4 days if not longer...not worth the risk even with a heated garage.

I was under the impresion it doesn't freeze solid, but turns slushy.

I've felt the hoses and it feels pretty solid. Maybe not as solid as ice, but not slushy by any means.

Auto AF will be fine in 50/50 concentration. Just make sure it gets collected in the spring. Its bad for the lakes/environment.

How much gas is everyone leaving in their tanks? For years, I filled the tanks up, put in the stabil and ran around for awhile. The last several years I have very little gas in the boat because of how gas breaks down and the importance with my motors of having good gas. Which is the right method?

Also, do you need to change spark plugs every season? If so, is that something that should be done in the spring or does it matter?

Take out 4 plugs, 3 hoses, done in less than 5 minutes, cost $0.

I have always ran my fuel down low 1/4 or less and treated that per my dealer, 9 years no problems... I change my plugs every year in the spring after running it on the hose first, not sure if it is necessary or not, but I do it anyway...

You should be able to go 300 hours on plugs. I've seen plugs at 500 hours that look like new. Today's newer motors come with platinum-tipped plugs that really should never need changed unless you have a problem with one.

Even if you get all the water out of your engine and there is no risk of damage from freezing I still like to run anti-freeze thru the system because I feel it protects the internal surfaces from corrosion and it helps keep your impeller and other seals lubricated for the beginning of next seasons start up.

For what it's worth, 27 years of winterizing boats - Drain Block ( make sure water comes out, they will plug with sand & rust) Drain Manifolds, ( same caution as block) Drain oil coolers, 5 gal bucket with 50/50 auto AF, start engine, suck up antifreeze until it comes out exaust. ( catch the discharged AF), Done. In the spring, fire-up and catch all the green and discard properly. I have done a lot of boats this way, has not cost me a engine yet.
Larry's Boat & Aircraft Repair
High deserts of utah (It gets real cold)

If you don't drain the water first, you don't know what kind of mix you are getting.

I agree 100%
In the spring I install the transom plug and remove the exhaust and blobk plugs and drain the antifreese into the bilge go outside with my 5 gallon bucket and remove the transom plug and catch all the antifreese and reuse it next winter.
If you have a auto bilge pump disconect it or it will go off with all that antifreese in the bilge

I remember winterizing....that sucks not only for the effort, but knowing your baby is taking a nap for 7 months.

What kind of engines are these? Are they EFI?

If so, you CANNOT spray fogging oil into the throttle body. You will RUIN a bunch of stuff, your MAF for one.

Proper procedure on an EFI engine, is to 1/2 of the gas out of the fuel water separator, and fill it with 2-stoke oil. Reinstall, and then let this be last minute or so of run time as you are finishing your antifreeze ingestion.

100% correct!

Every manufacturer has there recomendations for getting fogging oil into the cyl, carb models spray through the top, EFI's mix the oil at some point in the sys. before the high pressure pump, add oil to the fuel filter or attach a seperate fuel tank with the additives already in it,

I did all my winterizing yesterday... The sad part is it will be roughly eight months before I see the water again.... June.....

you may need to take a road trip south so you don't go through withdrawls, 8 months is a long time.

Fuel levels in tank
 

This is in response to Rebel Hearts Question concerning the fuel level in your tank. I was told that its best to leave a 1/2 tank or more and treat it properly. I guess they say the less fuel you have in the tank the more likely it is that moisture can condense on the walls of the fuel cell, and in the case of tanks constructed of aluminum, this can lead to corrosion and electrolysis. Weather this is true or not, I cannot verify. It makes sense in my mind though so I make sure its at least half full. This is the hardest time of year for boaters, having to put there vessels down for the deep, cold sleep.:D
Nick

What about pulliing the drain plugs, letting the water out and filling through the thermostat housing

Why not just drain the block, manifolds, mufflers, etc... Fuel stabilizer and fog if wanted. Then run -100 through it and be done. It should be just that easy. Or am I wrong????

there are a lot of ways to winterize an engine, the main concern is to get the water out, (antifreeze is optional, but recomended,) you can put the AF into the engine through the t-stat housing or the large hose coming off the waterpump, but that doen't winterize the oil coolers or the sea water pump, or the manifolds. once the engine is drained, starting it and sucking up the AF takes care of the whole system. The type of AF is up to the owner, I like automotive 100% so I can mix it 50/50 myself, But RV 100 or 50 is fine depending on you location.

This is my contraption. Works good and you don't loose any antifreeze.