Surface Drives, Why NOT????
12-28-2007, 11:54 PM
#31
Crazy Energy
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I've only owned a couple of surface drive boats and have never put the drives on a boat that wasn't rigged with regular outdrives. I have though owned alot of boats and have done alot of experimenting. When Rik says you need no special hull, I take that to mean you can bolt them to any transom.
In my own experience, I've taken a good running boat and slowed it down and/or made it handle poorly simply by adding something like extension boxes to the existing drives. I've seen boats that handle poorly, porpoised badly and in one case would almost not plane simply from a prop change. Now maybe you can successfully adapt an Arneson to any boat but what would concern me is the knowledge base- how many people have done EXACTLY what I'm looking at doing and done it successfully. If you have the resources ($$$) to do the experimenting and have a real desire to do something like this, then maybe they're a good idea. The biggst downside is prop availability and expense. Not everyone is going to be able to let you try their props to zero in on a setup.
In my own experience, I've taken a good running boat and slowed it down and/or made it handle poorly simply by adding something like extension boxes to the existing drives. I've seen boats that handle poorly, porpoised badly and in one case would almost not plane simply from a prop change. Now maybe you can successfully adapt an Arneson to any boat but what would concern me is the knowledge base- how many people have done EXACTLY what I'm looking at doing and done it successfully. If you have the resources ($$$) to do the experimenting and have a real desire to do something like this, then maybe they're a good idea. The biggst downside is prop availability and expense. Not everyone is going to be able to let you try their props to zero in on a setup.
12-29-2007, 01:04 AM
#32
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I first learned docking maneuvers with my V-Bottom single Alpha (think fiberglass repair). Since then I've owned twin straight-line inboards and V-Drives with no docking damage. Comparatively, my Cat with Arnesons' shifter response is prompt and precise. The only caution is with a Cat you need more neutral and less propulsion time as the shallow-draft sponsons glide so easily. Static draft at 22" with dynamic draft about 12"...
12-29-2007, 11:55 AM
#33
arneson-industries.com
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You have to get the power from the engine's drive axis to the propulsion unit's drive axis. If you add mechanical pieces to accomplish that (chains, gears or whatever) you add mechanical complexity. It takes more power and increases the maintenance and possibility of failures associated with having more parts. I wasn't saying the Arneson wasn't as reliable. I was saying that when these additional issues were factored in, you had the same issues with both systems.
I agree on setup but what choices do you have? If you have the 16" drop boxes, that puts the props together when you angle the drives in to fit them on the transom. Backing up is like trying to push a rope.
I agree on setup but what choices do you have? If you have the 16" drop boxes, that puts the props together when you angle the drives in to fit them on the transom. Backing up is like trying to push a rope.
First of all, you don't need a 16" drop box to accomplish what is needed here. That is a setup from the early 80's, and it is not that complex as you stated as even the ASD8 16 drop box has requires less power to turn than a Bravo. That setup was there so that the boat could have a staggered propeller centerline and still have the cockpit of a side by side setup.
As for docking, please be fair. A stagger is a stagger. This is the same for a Mercury setup. There is absolutely no difference when it comes to backing up a staggered boat.
Take a look at the new on line magazine www.performanceboats.com and look at the online review of the Eliminator 43' Eagle. Listen to what they have to say about docking and maneuvering. Yes it is a MERCURY power package and it doesn't dock for crap they said. They were certain to make that a point.
So my point is I do not doubt that your boating experience with a Stagger Setup Arneson is difficult to dock in comparison to a side by side application. But it is the same for every out drive, not exclusive to Arneson. Your statement that Arnesons are hard to dock is not true when you take into account what the setup is.
12-29-2007, 12:12 PM
#34
arneson-industries.com
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I read the 100+ MPH thread and it doesn't answer any questions at all for me regarding your product.
What I got out of the thread is the boat was fast, had to drag tabs and it also had a wicked chine walk in the video and zero information about how the boat handled at 0-100 MPH what it was like in turns or got on plane. Plus no information on all the "little tweaks" that were done to the boat.
That thread only raises more questions than it gives me answers.
What I got out of the thread is the boat was fast, had to drag tabs and it also had a wicked chine walk in the video and zero information about how the boat handled at 0-100 MPH what it was like in turns or got on plane. Plus no information on all the "little tweaks" that were done to the boat.
That thread only raises more questions than it gives me answers.
The boat had Bravos and some sort of power in the boat. How much I do not know.
The owner took the power out of the boat, put it in another boat and sold the other boat.
He then put the #7M's on the 38 Cig and put a set of blower motors making right at 1,000 hp they said.
They did not change the bottom, did not change the trim tabs or anything else. The boat originally went in the 80's I believe with the other power.
He put a set of 5 blades Merc propellers on it, and the boat ran 108 mph and the drives were over trimmed. New setup to the owner so he needs some more time to adjust. He said the boat has a lot more speed in it, just need better weather to get more out of it as it is cold in Syracuse NY in NOV.
I saw the video and asked him of the chine walking, he said tabs were full up, boat was full of fuel and had a load of people in it also.
So, I told him to set the tabs and see how the boat runs. Possibly change rotation if necessary on the propellers.
It was just a bolt on thing. No hull modifications.
Oh and the owner is happy as all hell he did the conversion to Arnesons!
When I say they work on nearly all hulls, it is true. Yes if there is a notch in the transom and someone wants to do a stagger then we have to address this will a filler plate but on a side by side installation, which is 99% of the boats out there, there are no issues.
We are only 2-3” higher than a Bravo propeller centerline. Not a huge difference. On some boats, (cats) we are the same height as a Bravo drive.
Plaining, there are the same as a Speed Master boat with a Speed Master Clever Propeller. The propeller does not know what drive is turning it.
01-01-2008, 03:12 AM
#35
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01-02-2008, 02:25 PM
#36
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Here is some literature on the kaama surface drives,in relation to how far they stick out the back of the boat. Comparing the kaama,trs,and speedmaster#3. A little hard to see.
01-13-2008, 10:27 AM
#37
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On a 2003 36' Spectre, going from standard length XR/Sportmasters to the "Bravo Swap" ASD7 Arnesons, what are the relative prop locations. I assume the Arneson puts the prop up and back compared to the Bravo's, but how much?
Also, my motors are located forward on the stringers, what needs to be considered regarding the transmission for the Arensons?
Also, my motors are located forward on the stringers, what needs to be considered regarding the transmission for the Arensons?
01-13-2008, 11:00 AM
#39
A to Z
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On a 2003 36' Spectre, going from standard length XR/Sportmasters to the "Bravo Swap" ASD7 Arnesons, what are the relative prop locations. I assume the Arneson puts the prop up and back compared to the Bravo's, but how much?
Also, my motors are located forward on the stringers, what needs to be considered regarding the transmission for the Arensons?
Also, my motors are located forward on the stringers, what needs to be considered regarding the transmission for the Arensons?
overall length of the 7 is 52 inches i think....
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