stevesxm

well,
with all due respect to the guys that have spoken, i haven't seen a shred of real data to support anything.

so in the end they are claims made without any objective evidence.

i don't think asking for uncorrected dyno data to support a claim made in support of a sale is unreasonable and , in fact would be the very first thing you would offer to support the merit of your work.

i am a consumer. i have two box stock 502 mag mpi's . show me some hard evidence of meaningful improvement and ill buy the boxes.

seems simple enough.

Dock Holiday

WOW

I guess the success these three guys have enjoyed through years of hard work and many satisified customers does not count for much in your book?

What have you contributed to the marine industry?

They really have nothing to prove to you. If you are not buying their serices or products they owe you nothing.

Hardin Marine

There's not a lot of value in me proving a Lightning Mfg claim to you. You have the engine lets Dyno it just think you could win $5000.00 bucks if your right? You haven't seen data because you haven't opened your wallet. You just make doubtful claims. Like I said before I'm not here to prove you wrong for free I want to be compensated to prove you wrong. I said put up $5K grand or you just don't have any confidence in what you claim. Its evident I do I will put my money where my mouth is? I don't want to here some speculation about a sheet of Dyno paper I want you to be there when we Dyno and that way you can right the check on the spot. This is not a kids game this is real business. There's no show for free Lets do it like men lets Dyno a motor.

CAL MAN

I can only speak for myself but any one that calls me and says they have a stock merc eng with a mefi 3 and no mods the only thing I can do for them is up the rev limit and on the 500 less black transum.If they have a mefi 1 and will run 93 fuel I can give a little more power in the mid range and a little beter fuel econ.
Who said 50hp on a cal change, I must have missed that one.

RunninHotRacing163.1

ROCK ON !!!!!! now thats puttin your $$$$ where your mouth is

stevesxm

thats right. i don't open my wallet to bullsht claims when the people making those claims won't provide any objective evidence that what they say has any merit. my point is and has been what cal man just refered to... that there are no magic free big power numbers hiding in remapping. You make the claim that they do. I 'm saying that that is typical marketing bullsht. for you to make the claims, you should already have the back to back, raw data dyno sheets that demonstrate where your remapping is better than the factory's. there should be no need for new dyno testing. my money was where my mouth was for 25 years doing this work. my engineering degree is from a real university. not the back of a match book cover and my credentials and track record speak for themselves.


remapping is a function of the mechanical requirements of the motor. if the motor was mapped properly at the factory ( my point) then there is perilously little value in remapping.

this thread started with the suggestion that adding headers would REQUIRE a remap to keep the motor alive. That's bullsht.

my first post on this subject stands as written. for the configuration as noted, remapping is a waste of time and money.

CAL MAN

Here is my 02 on the headers vs. remap, it really depends on were you live. Here in New Orleans in the spring and the fall we have high baro low ambient air temp and some times low humidity, on that day a 502 mpi with headers will hurt the #6 cly on a long wot pass every time. If you have a mefi1 you might be ok the cals back then were richer and had less aggressive timing maps but if you have a little low octane fuel on that day look out. The mefi ecm is a speed density unit there also is very little to no iat or baro corrections and just warm up fuel on ect. When you change the airflow thru the eng a small amount the speed density does not have enough resolution to tell so it still fuels the same amount at each break point as stock. If you boat at lake Tahoe you should be good to go, the baro multiplier there is still rich on all stock merc cals just run good fuel. If you are in a area that has oxygenated or ethanol blended fuel you are in big trouble with stock cal and headers. I will look later in my dyno files to see if I have a back to back header test on a stock merc eng.

Just my 02 pick it apart all you want,
Mark

CAL MAN

Here is an example of a stock 502mpi engine that was then modified with a set of Stainless Marine Exhaust manifolds. We Dyno'ed the engine before and after.

We then made some slight changes to the ECU (MAP, rev limit, spark) and tested again. I have overlayed all three runs together.

I would expect even better gains with a tubular exhaust system.

Can I go do some REAL work now?

Mark

pbam22

Can I go do some REAL work now?

Mark[/QUOTE]

You do that

Hardin Marine

For the sake of letting everyone get back to work. I have only one more question for Steve. Can you? will you? have you? ever tuned a MEFI computer? What exactly gives you ANY credibilty on this subject or to call this subject bull****?(take out the Trans am car install and a engineering degree in something yet specified) While the rest of us that actualy work in this Industry, bulld engines, Exhaust, Superchargers, and actually program MEFI ECU's get back to what we do best. I think Cal MAN's example is such a basic example its proof enough. Its America and your entitled to your own belief as well as the rest of the industry is entitled to theirs. My only plead is that you please be careful when suggesting to consumers to not pay attention to manufactures suggestions if for nothing else just their ability to stay in compliance with a manufactures warranty.