Reason for 0 pressure
 

removed the remote oil filter, cooler,block adapt,lines, cut the filter open , it wasn't too bad...OIL WAS BLACK..6 HR on oil chance..found alot of bronze.. some flakes 1/16- 1/8 th in size..

Looks like the oil came right out of the ground.

Bummer dmc, thats what burned up oil looks like. Unfortunately I've been there done that. Took out the mains. Should be a cheap fix though as long as it didn't spin a bearing.

Does the oil smell like fuel? I heard fuel mixing in will turn it black.

Bummer :( mains
That was not synthetic, right?

there isn't going to be anything cheap about this. and if you don't figure out exactly why the oil got 400 degrees and took out the bottom end, your next post will be, " gee i just had my motor rebuilt and it blew up again almost immediatly"

nothing happens for no reason

long story,motor builder said he'd take care of any problems.So he will get both motors...two years to get them back..last time ..supposed to be dyno'd..this motor had NO carbon in the exaust ..(had to remove manifolds when they came back.) he sword both were broken in.. "so go out and run them"..I informed him a month ago.. he will get them rite..want to see higher oil pressure thought..:food-smiley-007::ernaehrung004:

Did you check to make sure the oil lines to the remote filter where on correct? Thats one way to cook the oil and engine.

Just a warning, Do not reuse that oil cooler.

Were you running stock oil coolers? Brad at CPPerformance hooked me up with a deal on oil temp gauges and senders.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...d.php?t=184038

well... its your call because its your hardware but for the life of me i can not think of a single reason why i would send two motors back to a guy that took two years to build them in the first place, only to have them blow up almost immediatly.

exactly what has he demonstrated so far that makes you believe you will get anything back that's usable assuming you ever get it back at all ?

cut your loss and try to grind a cash settlement out of him and find someone that knows what they are doing to fix your stuff.

and thats assuming that the previous post that suggested that your oil lines weren't reversed isn't correct... because youre going to feel awfully foolish if that turns out to be the case.

as for the oil coolers... if they were the right size before, then they still are and you can clean them and reuse them just fine as long as you actually DO clean them properly. throwing away oil coolers is a myth promoted by the guys that sell them.

looks like spun a bearing to me...

I would say less than 1g assuming no machine work is required. That is cheap to me, may be not to you?

I would expect motor to need a new crank,possibly new rods and could even need a new block,main webbing has been known to crack if bearings weld themselves to the crank. Camshaft and lifters probably look torched too,could be bearing babbit welded to piston skirts from molten bearings splattering debri around.I wouldn't expect ANY part of it to cost less then a 1000$ except maybe the RxR,Smitty

BETTER, do NOT reuse that engine builder !!!!!!!!!!

AND believe me when i say i know what i am talking about.
Had an enginebuilder work onmy motor about 6 weeks ago and i am taking it out again for the second time after he did it.
I can hook you up with the right guy if you are sirius about NOT getting screwed.
To rebuild a complette engine should not take more then 4 days if parts are there.
Last guy who did mine put all wrong stuff in it.
NOW getting done wright for less what he robed me.

i would say that if you took that approach to fixing this then you know less than the guy that put it together in the first place.

That is some nasty looking oil. Looks like it got way too hot. For the next build, take some time to search and read a bunch of oil system threads. A lot of good information there. If you have a well designed oil system and a proper tune, you can run full throttle until the gas tank runs dry without hurting anything. Good luck.

Just got off the phone with the builder.. FULL WARRANTY !!!, sending both to him next week..

Dave, hope all goes well, just offer him thos suggestions I said about oil system, I bumped my pressures with new coolers and have no issues YET! 75psi cols, 40-50 after a good run, that seems to be helping me this time around. oil temps running hard 190-200 all the time!

as always, if you need any help I will do my best!

I would say if you conclude from some bronze in the oil filter and no spun bearings this is total destruction you are jumping to conclusions. I see one set of bearings, a polished crank, cooked block and all new gaskets. Any other conclusion from what is posted in this thread is ridiculous and most likely designed to line someones pockets.

Glad to hear the builder will take care of it for you DMC. You can see in this thread who not to ask for advise going forward unless you want to unload fort knox.

BT :cool:

I see both points... first off, Dave is a good friend and I am not and engine builder by trade, just for me..

I have had one hell of a season with similar issues, I wiped out mains 2 times this season, once on each engine, nobody in the world could give me a "perfect answer" I figured I had oiling issues, I pumped up my oil pressure and bought new cranks so they were not cut at all, I will tell you though... with the scrap Dave found I will pretty much gaurantee the crank needs cut, I have yet to ever have that much metal and was able to polish the crank.
even when cutting and repolishing a crank you are looking at 300 or so just for that.

I hope Dave gets fixed up, I know how many issues he has had in the past and this sucks for him, happens to all of us at some point but still sucks.

Dave... I would also talk to him about running coated bearings, that is another change I made, I have always done it with my car engines and the coating gives you a little extra room for issues, it acts as a film that the oil itself gives you, if you have a little less oil for any reason the coating will normally save you at least for a short time...

Like I said, Dave.. I will offer what i can!

I agree full force, it could certainly need more than a polish;
that would be best case scenario. You can't make a conclusion from looking at the pics. When I took out my mains due to high oil temps I had to get a new crank, so that happens too. One thing is for sure, oil temps need to be measured for both of you. Lean carburation can play a significant role in high oil temps as well as the oiling system itself.

BT :cool:

I just know that when you see copper in a oil filter that it is a bearing, whatever the cause...

In my case I questioned oil pressure my story is a long one, took perectly good engines, polish cranks, new bearings then had issues, only thing different was I had standard pressure/volume oil pumps, I had 45-50 psi cold... did not seem like enough, most say that was fine, i disagree... I run 75 cold now with 40-50 after running hard at idle, I have no more issues... temps are monitored on my boat since also... runs no more then 190-200 ever so far..

My opinions are my own, i fixed my issues... Dave knows what I have been through and all the steps covered, I believe pressures/volume played a big role in my issues, then again I see a friends 1075's run 52 psi cold.... maybe different since they are dry sump but thats what they run..I would not feel that is enough in my opinion but Merc knows what they are doing and engines are monitored for problems, if too low they shut off.

likje I say, pressures are a matter of opinion..I still use 10 PSI per 1000 rpm as a rule..minimal..

I like the pressures a little higher too FF. I run HV pumps as well. Next time around though I'm going to tighten the lower end up a bit and run standard volume pumps.

I build my own engines as well and have done quite well over the years although I have learned the hard way a number of times. I just get a kick out of the "pros" that come on here and act like everyone is building power for super cat light race boats or something and have unlimited resources. If everyone threw out their rods, cranks, pistons, blocks, etc. everytime they found a little bronze in the filter, all the engine builders would be rich!! SShhhhshh. :mad:

well you know without disassembly no one knows much...unless their cystal ball is working damn good...the oil will turn black like that when a bearing spins and the extra friction there will burn the oil up quick....then you have to figure out which happened first, did the oil look good up to the point the oil pressure started to drop ? did it get lower and lower or just drop to 0 at one time ?

The last motor I seen that had the oil turn to tar and had a filter full of bronze needed everything I mentioned,block was burnt around the mains with heat cracks,rods were blue,crank was junk,there was nothing "thrown out" just to spend money for no reason:rolleyes:,I wouldn't get "mad" about someone telling it like it is from personal experience,yes,until motor is tore down no one will really know the true extent of the damage. I'm glad this guy can get it warranteed,Smitty

Thanks Smitty..I am the guy... this builder has been in business over 30 years He will get it corrected...thanks for everyones help...Dave :ernaehrung004:

I agree with your assessment of your oil system. I think big block Chevy's should have 60 psi oil pressure warm running above 3000 rpm. That means you will have 80+ when cold. After a hard run my pressure stays above 20 and recovers quickly to about 40 at idle. This requires a number of things.

Clearences need to be correct. That means trial assembly and careful measurement with good micrometers and bore gauges. You don't just buy a rotating assembly and throw it in a block.

High volume oil pumps are almost always required. I like to run wider than stock clearences for less friction and greater oil flow to cool the bearings. Also on older blocks, the lifter bores wear and you lose more pressure there. More volume is required to keep the pressure up.

More oil flow requires an aftermarket deep oil pan with screens and a windage tray. The farther you can get the oil from the crank, the better. I put scrapers in my latest engines. This oil control keeps foaming under control and helps keep temps down.

A high volume pump won't do much good if you try to force that oil through 3/8 hoses and fittings. I'm using -10 hoses and fittings. That's equal to 5/8 i.d. Oil coolers also need to be upsized. A good size for a 500 hp engine is 3" dia. x 12" element. These coolers are advertised as 3" x 18" overall. I'm using 3" x 18" elements with 548 ci., 650hp+.

Tuneup is very important. Most oil heat come from the underside of the piston. Running lean or detonation causes the piston to get hot and that heat is transferred to the oil. Jetting a bit rich is a good insurance policy. Look at the way Mercruiser sets up their engines. Safe ignition timing is usually about 34 degrees total. I run 36 but I watch the plugs carefully and I run good premium gas. Keep the water temps cool. Mercruser used 140 degree thermostats in all of there carb. engines. Arizona Speed and Marine has 120 degree therms., thats what I use.

Last, good oil temp, oil pressure and water temp gauges are required. Ruining a $10,000 engine because you don't have a $50 oil temp gauge is pretty careless. Oil temps around 200 are great. 260 is kind of high and 280 should signal you to back off and let it cool. If you are seeing temps above 260, something is wrong with your oil system. I was having temp problems a few years ago and after one poker run, my fresh Mobil One would be black. Now that I have it under control, my oil looks almost new after a poker run. Quickly turning the oil black is a sign of too much heat on the underside of the pistons. Richening the mixture made my oil cleaner!

All of this is complicated and expensive. Sorry. Getting away from stock engines is going to require more money and more maintanence. These are a few of the things I've learned. I hope they can help someone else.

Totally agree, before I ran .003 thousands clearances on mains with standard pumps, that was my issue in my opinion, live and learn...

Now I run .003 on mains, .0035 on rear main both engines, rods are .0025 I believe, I have it logged at home., I shimmed the spring in the oil pumps.095 to give more pressure, seems to work great!

I am runn ing TRS bell housing oil coolers, were 7 blade, now they are 8 blade (both new). temps are great, tune is good.

I have stock 5/8 TRS lines, they measure 1/2 inch I.D. they are fine for my setup.

I have learned alot about BBC this year (I am a Ford guy) and will share any info I can to help Dave or anyone else! I have been through this too!