Whipple vs. Magnacharger
08-18-2009 | 09:57 PM
#21
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,895
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From: Chicago, IL; Onekama, MI
All I'm building this year is the top half! Thats more than enough for heads, intake, carb, cam and maybe exhaust. When I get to the the block I have one with all the machining done. All I need is the rotating assembly. Plus my brother is a mechanic so all my labor is free and parts are cheap.
Last edited by endeavour32; 08-19-2009 at 08:52 AM.
08-18-2009 | 10:05 PM
#22
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,801
Likes: 1
Thats the sprit, just keep at it. Youll get there!
3500 can get some parts for sure.
http://joplin.craigslist.org/pts/1293959768.html
A good start and about 200 off.
Keep us up to speed an take picts!
UD
3500 can get some parts for sure.
http://joplin.craigslist.org/pts/1293959768.html
A good start and about 200 off.
Keep us up to speed an take picts!
UD
08-20-2009 | 09:59 AM
#23
Platinum Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 292
Likes: 22
From: Manitowoc, WI
I just upgraded my merc 6.2s 200cc e tech heads crane roller cam edel rpm intake 750 holly carbs Hie igntions with msd in cap rev limters stock bottem end gained 10mph in twin engine 292 formula! I did not spend alot of money for that kind of gain but I had good bottem ends!
08-20-2009 | 11:49 AM
#24
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,777
Likes: 12
From: San Diego, California
Performance Boat Alchemy ??
Endevor:
I have read a few of your posts and you seem to have a highly constrained budget for performance boating.
If you start doing the neccessary work on nthe small blocks for a lot more horsepower and torque from small blocks that would be needed for your requirements you will quickly outspend your budget and end up with a unused "trailer queen" in your driveway, an empty wallet and a lot of wasted time and frustration!
Your Formula is a good size heavily built boat that will take big torque and moderate power for even decent cruise and top end performance and your not going to get that with a normally aspirated reliable small block even with big $$ rework and upgrades.
At Raylar, we have a moto for performance boat engines
"THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT"
Sell your small block, buy a good used or remaned 496HO Mercruiser engine ($8000 to $11,000), put a nice Dana Exhaust on it for about $2400. The 465 HP and 580 ft/lbs of torque will run your Formula just fine for now. when your budget gets a little bigger, put one of our Raylar complete HO525 _BCK103 kits on the 496 for $7.2K and whola, 570 HP, 625 ft/lbs of torque and a good reliable, 87-89 pump gas freshwater cooled electronic engine and now you've got all you need in that hull for good speeds. Want to go faster, save your COIN, sell your boat with the good power and buy a fast boat, like a Sunsation, Outerlimits, Nortec,Active Thunder, Fountain, etc. If you really want to go faster, then buy one of the high speed cats, Skater, MTI, DCB, Redline, etc.
Performance Boating IS A "COSTS MONEY" SPORT AND RECREATION"!! When you got the money, you can go faster, in the mean time use and enjoy your boat, quit "bench racing" with all the bloggers and friends and aquaintences, you ain't gonna get a lot of real something for a little nothing!!
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
I have read a few of your posts and you seem to have a highly constrained budget for performance boating.
If you start doing the neccessary work on nthe small blocks for a lot more horsepower and torque from small blocks that would be needed for your requirements you will quickly outspend your budget and end up with a unused "trailer queen" in your driveway, an empty wallet and a lot of wasted time and frustration!
Your Formula is a good size heavily built boat that will take big torque and moderate power for even decent cruise and top end performance and your not going to get that with a normally aspirated reliable small block even with big $$ rework and upgrades.
At Raylar, we have a moto for performance boat engines
"THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT"
Sell your small block, buy a good used or remaned 496HO Mercruiser engine ($8000 to $11,000), put a nice Dana Exhaust on it for about $2400. The 465 HP and 580 ft/lbs of torque will run your Formula just fine for now. when your budget gets a little bigger, put one of our Raylar complete HO525 _BCK103 kits on the 496 for $7.2K and whola, 570 HP, 625 ft/lbs of torque and a good reliable, 87-89 pump gas freshwater cooled electronic engine and now you've got all you need in that hull for good speeds. Want to go faster, save your COIN, sell your boat with the good power and buy a fast boat, like a Sunsation, Outerlimits, Nortec,Active Thunder, Fountain, etc. If you really want to go faster, then buy one of the high speed cats, Skater, MTI, DCB, Redline, etc.
Performance Boating IS A "COSTS MONEY" SPORT AND RECREATION"!! When you got the money, you can go faster, in the mean time use and enjoy your boat, quit "bench racing" with all the bloggers and friends and aquaintences, you ain't gonna get a lot of real something for a little nothing!!
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
08-20-2009 | 06:33 PM
#25
Chris
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 1
From: Snohomish, WA
Unfortunately... Ray speaks the truth in regards to money needed to go fast.
My personal example:
I bought a used 1999 Eliminator 22ft Eagle with a 350 in it. When I got it, it did about 54 mph, and I paid 16k for it. It was immaculate. I got the "go faster" bug really soon. I started with putting exhaust on it ($2k all said and done), and I was now going 56.5 mph. I put a new intake and carb on it ($1k all said and done), and was now going 58mph. I put new edelbrock heads in it, along with a cam and lifters ($2.5k) and was now hitting 62mph. I did all the work by myself to save on money. So now in a years time... I had about $22k in the boat over a years period of time.
Right about then... my buddy bought the exact same boat for $17.5k with a 454 mag in it. It did 67mph, and could out accelarate me any where, any time... I was bummed. I decided that I was going to build a 540 for my boat, and make it really fast. I bought a little at a time, and over 14 months spent $21k in motor, Bravo outdrive, and various parts to make the boat work. My family missed out on an entire season of boating because of my passion. When I finally put it all together and set up... the boat did 91mph! Problem was.. the hull was never intended to go that fast and it was terribly unstable and rough riding.
Over 26 months.. I had spent around $43k on my boat. I figured that out, and realized that was a average of almost $1700 per month for a really quick.. poor handling boat.
I sold the boat for $19k... that is all it was worth, and took that money and put it down on my Nordic. I now spend $500 per month for a fantastic handeling, 91mph boat, that I never have to work on. It is turn key.
Save yourself a lot of work, money, and grief... sell your boat as is... and go buy something that will do what you want it to.
You will be money and time ahead. You wont regret it.
Chris
My personal example:
I bought a used 1999 Eliminator 22ft Eagle with a 350 in it. When I got it, it did about 54 mph, and I paid 16k for it. It was immaculate. I got the "go faster" bug really soon. I started with putting exhaust on it ($2k all said and done), and I was now going 56.5 mph. I put a new intake and carb on it ($1k all said and done), and was now going 58mph. I put new edelbrock heads in it, along with a cam and lifters ($2.5k) and was now hitting 62mph. I did all the work by myself to save on money. So now in a years time... I had about $22k in the boat over a years period of time.
Right about then... my buddy bought the exact same boat for $17.5k with a 454 mag in it. It did 67mph, and could out accelarate me any where, any time... I was bummed. I decided that I was going to build a 540 for my boat, and make it really fast. I bought a little at a time, and over 14 months spent $21k in motor, Bravo outdrive, and various parts to make the boat work. My family missed out on an entire season of boating because of my passion. When I finally put it all together and set up... the boat did 91mph! Problem was.. the hull was never intended to go that fast and it was terribly unstable and rough riding.
Over 26 months.. I had spent around $43k on my boat. I figured that out, and realized that was a average of almost $1700 per month for a really quick.. poor handling boat.
I sold the boat for $19k... that is all it was worth, and took that money and put it down on my Nordic. I now spend $500 per month for a fantastic handeling, 91mph boat, that I never have to work on. It is turn key.
Save yourself a lot of work, money, and grief... sell your boat as is... and go buy something that will do what you want it to.
You will be money and time ahead. You wont regret it.
Chris
Last edited by CB-BLR; 08-20-2009 at 06:35 PM.
08-20-2009 | 08:32 PM
#27
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Not to hijack the thread, but Ray I see you like the Dana exhaust for the 496's any reason over say cmi's ? I know the cmi's are a grand more for polished.
Endevor:
I have read a few of your posts and you seem to have a highly constrained budget for performance boating.
If you start doing the neccessary work on nthe small blocks for a lot more horsepower and torque from small blocks that would be needed for your requirements you will quickly outspend your budget and end up with a unused "trailer queen" in your driveway, an empty wallet and a lot of wasted time and frustration!
Your Formula is a good size heavily built boat that will take big torque and moderate power for even decent cruise and top end performance and your not going to get that with a normally aspirated reliable small block even with big $$ rework and upgrades.
At Raylar, we have a moto for performance boat engines
"THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT"
Sell your small block, buy a good used or remaned 496HO Mercruiser engine ($8000 to $11,000), put a nice Dana Exhaust on it for about $2400. The 465 HP and 580 ft/lbs of torque will run your Formula just fine for now. when your budget gets a little bigger, put one of our Raylar complete HO525 _BCK103 kits on the 496 for $7.2K and whola, 570 HP, 625 ft/lbs of torque and a good reliable, 87-89 pump gas freshwater cooled electronic engine and now you've got all you need in that hull for good speeds. Want to go faster, save your COIN, sell your boat with the good power and buy a fast boat, like a Sunsation, Outerlimits, Nortec,Active Thunder, Fountain, etc. If you really want to go faster, then buy one of the high speed cats, Skater, MTI, DCB, Redline, etc.
Performance Boating IS A "COSTS MONEY" SPORT AND RECREATION"!! When you got the money, you can go faster, in the mean time use and enjoy your boat, quit "bench racing" with all the bloggers and friends and aquaintences, you ain't gonna get a lot of real something for a little nothing!!
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
I have read a few of your posts and you seem to have a highly constrained budget for performance boating.
If you start doing the neccessary work on nthe small blocks for a lot more horsepower and torque from small blocks that would be needed for your requirements you will quickly outspend your budget and end up with a unused "trailer queen" in your driveway, an empty wallet and a lot of wasted time and frustration!
Your Formula is a good size heavily built boat that will take big torque and moderate power for even decent cruise and top end performance and your not going to get that with a normally aspirated reliable small block even with big $$ rework and upgrades.
At Raylar, we have a moto for performance boat engines
"THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT"
Sell your small block, buy a good used or remaned 496HO Mercruiser engine ($8000 to $11,000), put a nice Dana Exhaust on it for about $2400. The 465 HP and 580 ft/lbs of torque will run your Formula just fine for now. when your budget gets a little bigger, put one of our Raylar complete HO525 _BCK103 kits on the 496 for $7.2K and whola, 570 HP, 625 ft/lbs of torque and a good reliable, 87-89 pump gas freshwater cooled electronic engine and now you've got all you need in that hull for good speeds. Want to go faster, save your COIN, sell your boat with the good power and buy a fast boat, like a Sunsation, Outerlimits, Nortec,Active Thunder, Fountain, etc. If you really want to go faster, then buy one of the high speed cats, Skater, MTI, DCB, Redline, etc.
Performance Boating IS A "COSTS MONEY" SPORT AND RECREATION"!! When you got the money, you can go faster, in the mean time use and enjoy your boat, quit "bench racing" with all the bloggers and friends and aquaintences, you ain't gonna get a lot of real something for a little nothing!!
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
08-21-2009 | 01:15 AM
#29
Registered
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,777
Likes: 12
From: San Diego, California
So Many Choices! So Little Money!
Conman:
Their are a few good exhaust headers for the 496 Merc engines on the market and Dana, and CMI both make good systems. The reason I like the Dana header manifold kits for single applications is that the Dana Flo-torque header manifolds are real headers with equal length internal tubes and a real merge collector in the riser that makes real horsepower and torque on the 496's , about 40hp more than stock 496 manifolds and they come in a complete turnkey kit (we helped design and test) and the whole kit package for these strong beautiful polished or custom color powder coated header manifolds is only about $2500 and the kit is easy to install and they are structurally strong.
When you take a CMI Sportube kit for the 496's which in kit form polished will also make about 40HP+ on a stock 496 the kit costs about $4500-$5000 per engine if installed without Captains Call. If you have or want to keep Captains Call or Silent Choice or Corsa Quick & Quiet and use the CMI Sporttube headers you have to loose the old switchable system and buy a CMI addtional kit for about another $1200.
This is why CMI has now come out with the CMI E-top package for 496's that will work with Captains Call, etc and these headers sell for between $3000 and $3500 depending on satin finish or polished. The problem here is that this header style will only make about 20-25HP more at best on a stock 496 not the 40HP+ the Dana's and CMI Sporttubes will make. The one disadvantage to the Dana header manifolds is that they are about 1" wider per side than Merc stock 496 exhaust or CMI headers ,so on a twin installation in some boats the Dana's may not fit with limited narrow distances between the two engines on some boats. I hope this helps clarify why Raylar and I feel that the Dana header manifold kits are still the best "BANG for the Buck" when it comes to Merc 496 exhaust packages so far in the industry.
496 Merc header class 1A is now dismissed!
Hope this info helps all looking at merc 496 header kit systems.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
Their are a few good exhaust headers for the 496 Merc engines on the market and Dana, and CMI both make good systems. The reason I like the Dana header manifold kits for single applications is that the Dana Flo-torque header manifolds are real headers with equal length internal tubes and a real merge collector in the riser that makes real horsepower and torque on the 496's , about 40hp more than stock 496 manifolds and they come in a complete turnkey kit (we helped design and test) and the whole kit package for these strong beautiful polished or custom color powder coated header manifolds is only about $2500 and the kit is easy to install and they are structurally strong.
When you take a CMI Sportube kit for the 496's which in kit form polished will also make about 40HP+ on a stock 496 the kit costs about $4500-$5000 per engine if installed without Captains Call. If you have or want to keep Captains Call or Silent Choice or Corsa Quick & Quiet and use the CMI Sporttube headers you have to loose the old switchable system and buy a CMI addtional kit for about another $1200.
This is why CMI has now come out with the CMI E-top package for 496's that will work with Captains Call, etc and these headers sell for between $3000 and $3500 depending on satin finish or polished. The problem here is that this header style will only make about 20-25HP more at best on a stock 496 not the 40HP+ the Dana's and CMI Sporttubes will make. The one disadvantage to the Dana header manifolds is that they are about 1" wider per side than Merc stock 496 exhaust or CMI headers ,so on a twin installation in some boats the Dana's may not fit with limited narrow distances between the two engines on some boats. I hope this helps clarify why Raylar and I feel that the Dana header manifold kits are still the best "BANG for the Buck" when it comes to Merc 496 exhaust packages so far in the industry.
496 Merc header class 1A is now dismissed!
Hope this info helps all looking at merc 496 header kit systems.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
08-21-2009 | 05:29 PM
#30
Thread Starter
Registered
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,895
Likes: 124
From: Chicago, IL; Onekama, MI
Trust me I know about the laws of diminishing returns.... I've spent thousands on my sailboat just to gain 2-3 knots in light air. A good feathering prop is $3500.00 alone! My Formula is priority #2. So yes I'm looking to get some more speed for less money. But like the sailboat, its not cheap. Either way it looks like I'm back to square one. I wish there were more used parts available for the 496 that I started. Oh well, I guess its time to start saving!
Last edited by endeavour32; 08-22-2009 at 12:14 AM.
