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454 vs 489

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Old 02-05-2010 | 10:13 PM
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I agree with getrdunn on the heads. Check out the new AFR 265 oval port. It comes with a cnc chamber, fully cnc intake port and cnc bowl port in the exhaust. It was designed to fill the void in the 427-468 range. It would be a killer head on your package and the price is great for what you get.
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Old 02-05-2010 | 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by endeavour32
I agree with getrdunn on the heads. Check out the new AFR 265 oval port. It comes with a cnc chamber, fully cnc intake port and cnc bowl port in the exhaust. It was designed to fill the void in the 427-468 range. It would be a killer head on your package and the price is great for what you get.
I agree that thoses AFR heads would be perfect for what I want to build, but I kinda got stuck with these World heads after buying them and have spent some money in them already. I can't sell them and break even so Iam going to try to use them and work around these heads.
Iam sure people will say just sell them and start with a better head but I will lose money if I sell these world heads..
Erik
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Old 02-05-2010 | 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by crapr6
I agree that thoses AFR heads would be perfect for what I want to build, but I kinda got stuck with these World heads after buying them and have spent some money in them already. I can't sell them and break even so Iam going to try to use them and work around these heads.
Iam sure people will say just sell them and start with a better head but I will lose money if I sell these world heads..
Erik
When we had them on a flow bench , they are a brawdband head ,,so to speak.....they make good power in a 454 and up to 540 Ci ,,,on an other note ,,,i would only go 9.6-7:1 in a boat....TO MUCH LOAD THRU OUT THE RPM BAND,,,not a car witha tranny u know ?!
I would definatly go with a forged crank anyways,,,i believe the 330 had a cast crank ,,unless u already upgraded it !
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Old 02-05-2010 | 11:48 PM
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The Merlin Ovals are good, is that what you have? You'll make good power with those. The afr's are better but they also cost more.
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Old 02-06-2010 | 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by endeavour32
The Merlin Ovals are good, is that what you have? You'll make good power with those. The afr's are better but they also cost more.
No I have the World Merlin Bill Grumpy Jenkins port design rec port cast iron heads. Cast number 1-043B
Intake runner is 320cc
intake valve is a 2.250
exhaust valve is a 1.88
118cc combustion chamber
They are to big for a 454 I was told but work best on 500+ cid motors. Another reason to build a stroker 454..
Erik
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Old 02-06-2010 | 12:24 AM
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with those big heads you may need to build a stroker. Good luck with the build, soon its going to be time to be on the water again.
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Old 02-06-2010 | 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by endeavour32
with those big heads you may need to build a stroker. Good luck with the build, soon its going to be time to be on the water again.
Thanks and I agree, before you know it its going to be spring/summer. All this snow today isn't helping thought!!!
Erik
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Old 02-06-2010 | 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by getrdunn
You pretty much said exactly what I would have. The 320 cc intake runners are for sure going to be on the sloppy side so to speak on a 454/468. On a 454 I personally wouldn't want any more than about 280 cc at least for a marine engine anyway. I went with my 310's because it kind of went with the package, cam selection etc. I plan on running around 5800 at WOT. Dean Gellner helped me out the build and cam grind. That ***** sounds wicked. I have the cam specs if you want them. Otherwise your option with Bob would be great also. Jeffsaw on the board here did a very similar thing as you however he had the gm oval port heads. 820's I think, There pretty much like the 049's. He picked up like 5 mph from his previous build when he stoked it and did the Bob M. cam thing. You are on the right track and it sounds like you know what's up so I'm sure you'll be fine.
Yea, thats correct. I picked up 4-5 MPH just from the bore and stroke. Same heads, intake, exhaust, cam, ect.. The only thing I changed was the forged stroker assembly. At that point I had a crane cam, stock exhaust, penut port heads and the Holley MPI. This setup is not advised, it did not last very long with the stock exhaust.
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Old 02-06-2010 | 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by endeavour32
I've been in your shoes for the last 2-3 months. I was almost going to sell my 439 rotating assembly and go the 496 route. But I was then assured I wasn't going to "regret" what I was doing with the big bore short stroke. So here is what I was told by two really good engine builders/engineers. First thing I was told is that cubes are cubes. A longer stroke will build no more torque than a short stroke- cubes being equal. However the short stroke will have a wider flatter power curve, according to one of the guys and short stroke will be much easier on the rods and crank. If a 496 lets say can make 625 hp which is 1.26 hp per cube. Then my 439 is capable of the same 439 x 1.26 = 553 hp. The same formula goes for torque. So a bigger motor will build more power, but it won't build more power per cubic inch all else being equal . So the difference between your 468 and the 496 would- be 589 hp vs 625 hp so about 2 mph. I think my next engine build is going to be a 4.6 bore merlin block with my little 3.76 crank which will be a 499. The thing will rev to the moon and make awesome power from 3300-6100+ rpms. I'm sure I'm going to get some flack from this post, lol.
I agree with you premise that a bigger motor will not make more hp per ci than a smaller motor. A decent build will make abot 1.1 hp per ci. So a 454 will make about 500 hp and a 489 will make about 538. In this case however, the bigger motor is a better match for the heads. I would guess that the difference when it is finished will be about 50 hp.

As far as the longer stroke being harder on the rods and crank etc., at the rpm's we run, there is no real difference between the two. Drag racers are turning 4.5 stroke engines 8000rpm's with Scat and Eagle rods all of the time now and they only break if something else is wrong with the motor. If you build that small stroke motor like you saying and only turn it 6100, it will only make about 600 hp, 650 with really good heads. Supercat 750's are 510 ci and turn up to 7800 rpm to make 750-800hp. Why not put a 4.5 stroke crank in your new talldeck block and spin that 6100rpm and make 800 hp and have along operating life.

Last edited by PatriYacht; 02-06-2010 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 02-06-2010 | 12:32 PM
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All great info guys,
So now iam looking at Eagle and Scat rotating assemblies. I have used Scat stuff before with no problems. Just wondering if the Eagle stuff is as good if not better then Scat?
Erik
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