Cigarette or Active Thunder?
 

Ok guys,

Just came back from the Miami show. Got a ride in an active thunder. Man, what a great riding hull. I'm trying to justify buying a boat for twice the money? So, what does everybody else say? Anybody with experience either way?

Just an FYI. The guys at the cigarette booth were dicks! We went in looking at outerlimits and cigarette, and ended up very surprised by the active thunder. He was also the only one that would take us out in the ocean, everybody else said it was too rough.

Tom

No experience with either brand, but have to say if the guys were diks I wouldn't buy a thing from them. If you can bypass the a-wipes and go straight to someone with clout (and common courtesy) at the factory maybe it's worth giving them a second chance.

Once you go for a Pat ride in the A/T there is no turning back, you will love there boats, great ride and eats up the rough. We love ours and would not trade it, you wont go wrong with the A/T.

A fellow michigander :). Nice! I was really surprised to hear they vacuum bag everything. The boat road awesome, and wasn't over the top. It feels like something I could really use and not be to worried. Anybody sell a cig to buy a a/t? That would be interesting to hear.

Tom

What size did you take a run in. That's pretty cool of the guys to take you out when others said it was to rough. That itself says something. It sucks regarding your experience with the Cig reps. When you here things like that it always confirms why you must be present at your own business regardless the size. A show such as Miami you'd think they would have the best reps available. That would have been a huge turn off. let me know a little more about what you went out in. I am going to be in the market for a new boat before to long myself. I got into this project a year ago and need to finish it first otherwise I am affraid it will just sit. I even started a thread not long ago under Active Thunders section a few weeks ago. I remeber them back in the late 80's and early 90's always being impressed. I have owned several boats but neither of the two your looking at. I probably enjoyed my 28 Super V-28 Challenger the most and then the Saber. Both were very nice boats and well built.

Sharing a little more about your experience will be helpful for me as well. Where is the A/T Factory located. Maybe I can meet you out there for a quick getaway to look at there facility. Maybe Cig lost two customers. I would definately PHONE (not email) the GM or VP and let them know your experience. That's really to bad. I will say it was always nice dealing with the smaller boats manufactures. They tend to go to great lengths to prove themselves in this overwhelmed market. Many good ones to choose from now a days.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

John

Tom, What do you do in GR. That's my home town until I started this 15 yrs ago.
www.heathlands.com

You might get more responses if you move this to the Active Thunder owners forum.

Morry

I'm sure he rode in the 37.

AT test rides are legendary (I've never been on one...yet) but have ridden in a couple 37's. They are built in Pompano and as an AT owner you will have owner of AT's cell phone number.

For equal money I think I'd still pick the 37AT. I gotta have a cabin and although I like the 39 Cig (staggered) the AT fits my needs better.

How rough was "too rough" for the others to take you out?

Yup, We went out in the 37 excess. It was the red with black tiger stripes. Twin 525's with Bravo XR drives.

For how standard the equipment was, i really felt like i was riding in a lot bigger boat, with allot more power.

I agree, i think he could be on par with some higher end prices, and I would pay the money. Its cool to see a guy that loves boats, building what he sells, and loving every second of it :)

Tom

Near the shore it was 3 to 5'. A mile or so out, it was 8'.

It's been ugly down here for a while. We have a Cobalt 343 with twin 525's and bravo XR's. The cobalt would have handed us a beating in the water we were in today.

Tom

www.borisch.com

:)

Look in the AT section. One of the Members - Macklin has a decked out 37 that is like new (no BS) and I think he is going to put it for sale. Save a few more coins and get a like new boat.

Yup. Thinkin' about it. Also thinkin' I would love to enjoy it for one more season. I've only put 105 hours on her.

BUT...:party-smiley-004:




And yes, Pat's demo rides ARE legendary!

I may be interested if the boat fits what im looking for. Any chance you can direct to some pictures of it. What are you looking to get out of it?

Thanks,
Tom

Macklin you moving up to the new 39 ?

Pat is a great guy and builds an Awesome boat, I wouldnt hesitate on either an Active THunder, or the Cig. Surprised to hear about the attitude at Cig, but they do get extremely busy with dreamers at the show. If you want to seriously talk to someone about a Cig, PM me, and I can get you in touch with Tim.

Rick

I remember way back when they were built outside of chicago..Ziggie use to own thunder which is now called active thunder i believe..i have 2 friends that have the thunder 31's,,the boats are built vary well,i wouldnt mind saving 100+k in this economy...

Ziggy would build you just the hull for 30k but that was in the late 80's or early 90's i forget..

My 32 active thunder will run with any 38,39' boat out there in the rough, they are built rock solid and ride awsome, as well as a fast hull, and deep as any boat made for a safe feeling ride. The 37 will be my next boat and will be my 3rd active thunder.

That's it I need a ride in one. That's all there is to it.
That and hopefully busy golf season. LOL....

Hey Rick, it was first thing Sunday morning, and we were the only guys at the booth. The guys ignored us for 15 mins, then when we got sick of waiting to be approached and asked for help, we were treated like an inconvenience.

The guys at outerlimits on the other hand were very excited to talk to us.

Pat from active thunder impressed the heck out of me. Nice guy, knows a ton about boat construction, and judging buy the monster smile on his face during the test drive.. This guy LOVES what he does!

Tom

I wonder how many boats Cig and A/T builds each a year?

Pat rides are famous, and we where fortunate enough to get one, we will be in the A/T family for some time. Hope you enjoy.

Not sure about those numbers, but I do know from when I visited Outerlimits, they had done 20 boats in 08 and were scaled back to 12 for 09.

I would guess around 8-10 AT's a year over the past 3-4 years. Cig is probably about 4-5 times that. Just guessing based on what I've seen.

PM sent w/ link to pics. Give me a shout.

Tom,

That surprises me, but maybe they were all a little tired from Saturday night in south beach:eek: Not making any excuses for them, just wanted to let you know that if you are serious, I will set you up with the guy you need to speak to:drink: Also, not trying to steer you from Active thunder at all either, The quality, ride, and speed of both boats are all top notch, if I was in the market, it would be a tough choice for me, since they are both great boats, and I have connections in both places.

Rick

Affordability seems to be key in this market now. Resale value doesnt mean sh!t lately. Lots of Cigs going cheap ! Can prob get a used Cig for not much more than a AT.

I worked the cig booth every day.Who did you talk to that was a dick? I know it was'nt me. :bsflag:

They build about 60 boats a year. 30 for the US and 30 for over seas.

Instead of calling BS you may want to introduce yourself, as he may not know you work for Pier 57 and try to salvage a sale??

Pat

Popcorn anyone? :party-smiley-004:

My thought exactly.
Steve

60 Cigs and 12 AT's per year. I have ridden in both. I own one. Guess?

You guy's are right. I apologies for the BS. I know that i approached everyone that i talked to,like they were a boat buyer. Keep in mind that everyone that came to the show came through the cig booth. That is alot of people to talk to. If you are interested in a cig you can call me.I will be more than happy to help you.
Carey Downs
662-415-7446
731-689-4000
Pier 57.com

Did you buy the AT because it rode better than a Cig or because it was cheaper? Can you make some comparisons with the 38 TG and your 37 AT? I have never personally ridden in one, but lots of raves on this thread.

I boat 90% of the time offshore and 10% on lakes. I wanted a little more well-rounded boat (cabin, shore power, shower, enclosed head with holding tank) that could tackle big water. Status and ego played no part in my decision making process or I would have purchased a Cig as that’s where their value is my opinion. When it was time for me to buy my boat, I looked across the board. I narrowed it down to a 38 and 39 TG (new at the time), 37 AT, and 39 NT. The NT was first out as I didn’t care for the ride at all. The 38 and 39 will still considered even though they had sparse cabins.

I will admit, I was around a lot of AT’s growing up. There were 5-6 in the Houston area. My Dad (chuckbeecher on OSO) owned a 32 for a couple of years. I always remember them being the best kept secret in hi-performance boating. I remember going out as a teen in 4-5 footers and still running 70+ mph. I remember all the Cig guys whispering about the AT’s on the lake--some of them are still our family friends. I remember Outerlimits building a 37 Stiletto with 500’s and CMI’s so it could beat the ATs on the lake. Hustler did the same with a 388 slingshot.

The 38 TG and the 37 AT probably had the most similar rides.. They both were well constructed big water machines. At the time Cig was going through the dumbing down process of the 38 because of the new to market 39. The 38 product was not as nicely appointed as it was in previous years; buy only so they could differentiate from the 39 on price point and amenities (bling).

The 39 Cig was really nice. It set the market at the time in regards to the bling factor. The fit and finish was very impressive. Again, the cabin was not there but you know the other bells and whistles set it apart by about 10% over the AT; at that time. The ride was way different. The boat tended to roll into the seas during a strong quartering wind and sea. This may have more to do with the stagger setup and CG; not hull design. I also felt the center of gravity in the 39 was significantly more forward than that of the 38 TG and the 37 AT. It still landed solidly but handled much differently.The AT rode much better especially in quartering seas and strong quartering winds. I attribute this to Harry’s step and the 37 AT overall feel of being “deep” in the boat. If it does teeter based on the wave/landing, you don’t feel like you are coming out of the boat. The TG was solid going straight into the seas head on, but not noticeably better than the AT. The TG in quarterning seas felt much more unbalanced side to side. The freeboard was much lower in both the 38 TG and the 39 TG. The AT seems to envelop the cockpit passenger as compared to the TGs. The bottom line is that the 39 TG’s handling was different for the set up. What was the result? Increased speed? The 37 AT and the 39 TG 525 ran identical speeds (87 for the TG, and 87 for the AT). I am glad they finally did away with the 525 package in the 39 TG. It did nothing for the boat. It is a much better boat with the 700 package. I have also been in that package and was more impressed. I do not have much seat time in the 37 AT with 700s to give a relevant compariston.

Money only came into to play once I look at depreciation. The 38 TG at the time was 330K, and the 39 525 EFI was about 390K. They are much more now even thought they can be bought back of retail more now than then. The AT was about 245K for my set up. The Cig depreciated at 20% a year and so did the AT. The bottom line is that 20% of 245K is 24K per year. If I swayed Cig, I was dead set on the 39 Cig and 20% of that was 37K per year. It may sell for higher at the end of the day but your yearly hit in real cash was greater. Another thing I like is Cig are everywhare. AT are more rare. Compare it to cars. Also, take a look at the product Pat is putting out in 2010/2011. They are now close if not on par with the TG in fit and finish. The 60 hour demo boat in the show was nice but not even close to what Jeff C is building it should be done in a week. Also, look out when the 39 AT comes out. That is going to be a beast.

Are saying people on your lake had these boats built or the companys themselves built those two models to so they could compete with an AT?? I would like to get out in one of these 37's one day to see what all the hype is about since i've pretty much been in everything else. I've seen some in person and didnt see why but maybe the ride is it?

I know what you are talking about my 35 Cig will run with any 42-45' boat in the ruff

IMO comparing the 38 Cig and 37 AT is debating varying degrees of excellence. They both ride great and are built well. The difference is in the details and personal preference (biggest being full cabin of the AT).