Pokher Ace

30 years ago no one knew of a prop that could even get a boat on plane with a higher x. I bet the misconception of bad handling with a surface drive would be merc's attempt at it with their blackhawk drive.... those turn a performance boat into a bumper boat Arnesons are not for the weak obviously budget and performance go hand in hand

Rik

Dots meaning you are jumping around with your argument. A more precise narrowed argument would be far easier for the readers to follow.

Example, your second sentence states “take surface drives out of the picture” this is a ‘Surface Drive” thread.

As for monopoly, do you realize that Mercury and Volvo and even OMC owned their own boat companies in order to ensure their product would have a home?

Mercury even offered (much to their demise) financing options to ensure they got and held a foot in the door. Mercury, Volvo and OMC were also smart enough to offer an engine package whereby the builders make one phone call and it all arrives together in one shipment, one point of contact etc.. Ilmor is now having to do the same in order to compete in the smaller boat markets.

Trimming down 7 degrees does not have a bearing on anything. The Arneson does the same so that is a mute point. Feathers are far from ruffled; I just think you might need more first hand knowledge in order to make a more complete statement that would be easier to follow and comprehend.

MILD THUNDER

iTrader: (3)

Can you imagine how much money merc would lose if they had arneson drives? Even their strongest #6 dry sumps have a limited life span. Then when the time comes to rebuild them, you better have a big checkbook.

Every boat i have inquired about, mostly older cats and vees, with asd drives, have run big power thru them for many years trouble free.

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to base a opinion on these. If you do your research, and talk to people who actually own and run these drives, you will find out they are a winner. Look at what you got. A somewhat simple design, big shafts, bearings, not much to break! Then look at a merc drive parts diagram. Nothin but shims, small gears, shafts, bearings, collars, clutch cones, spacers, weak housings, etc.

They are more reliable, faster, and cheaper to own in a long run, considering you have decent power.

KVOGT on the board here, has a old 38 flatdeck cig with old 1600 series asd's. Before the asd's, he busted 5 trs drives in one season if i remember right. Big heavy boat, runs in big water. Rerigged with asd's, drive failures are a thing of the past. Not to mention the boat picked up i believe at LEAST 10mph if not more.

Some of the guys relate bad experiances planing, bow carrying ability, and issues with high drive heights when they bolt a shorty lower on a bravo, and write off the idea of the prop being close to the surface as a bad idea. Theres a reason for ext boxes for this, and long shafts on a asd.

If anyone remembers the old 32 hustlers in the early 80's with asd surface drives, there was nothing that could touch it speed wise. With 600's they ran 100mph. even with 330's they ran mid 70's. And handled great. Try to get a mid 80's 32 to 100mph with bravos, trs, and see how much power its gonna take and what a wild ride its gonna be.

Sunny32SSR

Wow, this is argumentation at its best. Forget the rhetoric

Proposition - Need/problem - Reiteration - References

Pismo10

Absolutely true, the market is too small. Mercs bread and butter is the low end, not high.

hoozeyurdaddy

this is a go no where conversation, the question was (why don't you see more surface drives,) I posted my opinion, I have not had the opertunity to be around surface drives, my post was based on what I've seen and heard about them, 25 year in the boating industry and not 1 arneson come through my door. I'm being told how great they are, where are they? you say it's because of engine packaging, why does'nt arneson offer a package, after 30+ years I would have expected something to get there drives out there. if there so much simpler than a bravo, with less moving parts why do they cost so much? These are questions I think a lot of us whould like to know.

endeavour32

iTrader: (4)

I used to work in the ski industry as a sales rep. The fact that merc can offer a package and then give big terms in financing is very valid. I was up against the same thing until I went to work for the big boys. My orders were 5-10x bigger because of the terms, discounts and package deals. I agree though seeing that Arnesons are much simpler their price "should" be much less. You can either make a lot off of one item or a little over many. I like volume myself. Personally if I was running Arneson I would drop my price for a while and flood the market with drives. This would wake everyone up to how great they are and consumer demand would follow. After 30 years with little to no maket share the current price stratagy, in my book isn't working. Come on Arneson, how about an affordable package that will compete against a std alpha/bravo package. Lets get some of your drives on more boats. I'd love to see one hanging off the back of mine!

4mulafastech

I'm by no means an expert, but from what I have read surface drive applications do require more attention and tweaking with respect to set-up. This is likely due to the fact that most are 'conversions' from a Bravo type drive. The type of hull (stepped, notched, weight, location of CG) all play a part. Prop design/selection is also key to getting things dialed-in. Just my 2 cents...

I think if performance boat manufacturers started offering surface drives as a standard option and actually designed around the surface drive working through all these set-up idiosyncrasies, it would out-perform a Bravo boat at every level.

Rik, have you ever been involved with a conversion of a 292 Fastech (stepped deep V with twin small blocks) or similar?

Car Biz

iTrader: (1)

I think the initial cost was and is a factor. I will say that i LOVE my drives. Are they rare.......yep..........Is it hard sometimes to get on plane?............sometimes once you get used to it it is a snap!.................Hard to dock?..............Not when you get used to it!.............Faster?...........YUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take a old school, straight bottom,8000 LBS rig with 400 HP (dynod with car headers) and run 67.9 GPS!!!!

A Surface Drive will work GREAT with big and small power. After my re..........re.......build. my boat has run faster with not much more power.

Set up is a big deal BOATMAN302 can tell you that as FACT. Hell i gained 13MPH GPS from a prop change and i think there is more in it yet

Rik

Engine package? While we do not currently build motors we do have an engine package with Sterling Performance Engines in MI. We offer a 600 - 700 - 800 - 900 - 1,000 hp and upwards engine package with a drive unit.

Cost, please compare what the cost of a Bravo is or a Bravo copy is and then you will see we are cheaper. Cheaper? Yes! Add in all the things you will have to purchase to put the I/O on the boat comparably, such as Steering, Standoff Box, Helm Unit, the Drive Assembly (not a piece of a drive, the entire gimbal transom assembly, bellhousing, drive plate, etc... ) we are cheaper. So how cheap do we have to be? We also have a WARRANTY on our drive units. Others?