Stereo install
 

Im working on my next project. Adding a new sound with all Alpine marine components.

Head unit - iDA-X100M
Speakers 4 pr - SPR-M700 7"
Subs 2 - SWR-M100 10"

I am still trying to figure what amps I want.
Do I get 3 amps?
1 amp for subs -PDX-1.600M
2 amps for speakers - PDX-4.100M

or do I go with 2 amps? - PDX-5M and split the subs? What is the right way? 1 amp for each - 2 pr of speakers and 1 sub.

I still have to work on the battery configuration. Any suggestions or advice is appreciated.

I would go with two amps pushing everything. I am not an alpine fan but not bad stuff. Using two will make a more compact set up and easier sys to drive with your head unit. Plus you are using tens so it will sound good. Use a Deka group 31 batt they will let you playtime setup for at least 6 hours. One will be enough and can be purchased at batt plus store for 100 bucks. Don't buy a optima or other styles like that trust me they wont last.

Is the Deka a deep cycle battery?

A guy I know has the same setup. It sound great! He is using 3 amps. He also has 2 optimas/blue just for stereo. Seems like a over kill. But I want to do it right.

I have used optimas forever in competition stereos and they are the bomb... Have 2 on my current boat setup and it will play all day on the beach. Went 2 days without ever even running and fired right up. As far as amps I would use 2. One for subs and one for highs and mids. IMO 3 would be overkill

How do you go about having more speakers than channels? I will have (2) 10" subs, that is one amp. Then I will have (8) 7" 2 way speakers.

Two speakers each channel =2ohm load. Make sure the amps are rated for 2 ohms. I'm running all my stuff off a DEI 2205 5channel amp.

Each channel of the amp is 100 watts and each speaker is 50 watts norm. The speakers peak at 150 watts. So will the amp be enough to push the speakers to the ability?

Are the components seperate tweeter/woofer style? or are they "all in one"? If the tweeters are seperate I would mount them higher up on the gunnel than the woofers, but, if they are combined, then you are pretty limited.

I have heard good things about the PDX amps, the only negative I have heard is that they run HOT, so, make sure they have lots of air around them, or better yet, a fan or two. Alpine also make a 4.150, dont know if its marine rated or not, but, you could use 2 of them to drive all the components you have, and then some.

JL Audio make some REAL nice marine stuff too, if you dont have your heart set on Alpine

Michael

Those Amps are two ohm stable so double up 2 pairs of 7in on each amp and bridge the subs on the other channel. So 2 pairs and one sub per amp.
Not to get into a battery arguement but the DEKA are the way tpo go. You will need only one to run the system not two, and will play at full volume for hours. And I mean pushing in excess of 3000 watts. They are deep cycle with 250 reserve cap and 150amp/hours. Plus they will fit in a standard Batt box no need for a special one. Plus they are 100 bucks not 300x2. I am not saying optimas are bad they are just not as good.
Your amps will actually push your speakers better with that load as well. You will be able to leave the gains down and that in theory will keep temps down of the amps. Make sure they are well ventilated or have a fan to help if they get hot.

[QUOTE=
JL Audio make some REAL nice marine stuff too, if you dont have your heart set on Alpine

Michael[/QUOTE]

I run all JL....stuff sounds sick

Ya I looked at JL plus others. But I have a old alpine in it now and it has been good. Plus I already bought it all. Except for the amps.

I have used Optimas in the past, they worked well and definately had the "Bling" factor [if thats what you want] for a dedicated stereo battery "Kinetic" make some cool stuff, but, its heavy, same goes for Surette, but, they are pricey

Michael

I have no problem with Alpine's stuff, I just found that you had to buy the "high end" stuff to justify the expense, in other words a $1000 Alpine Deck would probably be better than almost anything out there, but, the $300 Alpine Deck wasn't any better than a lot of other companys $200 deck, if that makes sense, LOL!!

Michael

I Agree, a neighbour of mine has a pair of 750/1's pushing four of the JL W7's in his Outerlimits and its UNHOLY loud, but, really clean too, I guess some it has to do with the install too, boxes built the right size, sealed up tight, etc

I understand using the 2 amps. But using the 2 amps compared to 3 is only $100 difference. So wont it be better that route? just asking

I dont plan on using optimas. I dont know anything about them. I have 2 good batteries now and if I was to get a optima for my stereo. I would have to buy 2 more to replace my existing and the battery boxes. That just the way I am. Things have to match. Granted if I can't find a box to match what I have. I will be replacing them all.

100 difference go with 3 for sure. May take up more space but you can be easier on the amps and get longer life out of them. I never run an amp over 30-50% gain in a setup I want to last. Optimas are great but you have to make changes to battery chargers etc so you are better off to keep what you have now. The deka really are a good deep cycle that will take an old conditional charger.

The amps are stackable so they wont take much room. I plan on putting them in the mid cabin or under the back bench seat. I'll look at it when I'm at the lake over the weekend.

Do the 3 amps, you wont be sorry regardless of price. Amps running a 4ohm, digital or not will draw way less power (amps) and produce less heat, 4ohm will have a cleaner output as well. On a boat, power (watts) is key to loud, clean, reliable sound. If you put the amps in the cuddy run 0awg wire, battery wise I really have great luck with Interstate SRM-29 batteries, they play for a long time and recover (charge) very quickly. In my own 10+ years of audio experience (thats my job) Optimas are ok in cars but in boats most people are not smart enough to take care of them properly, the same goes for most high performance CAR audio batteries, they DO NOT like to be ran down past 12.0 volts very much, and repeated times will kill them. I have seen this plenty of times with SVR, Kinetic, Optima etc. Another thing that helps is to run a 4awg or better wire from the altenator(s) to the switcher or isolator, you will get much better current flow and better charging when the engine(s) are running. Let me know if you have any further ?

I thought the same about the 3 amps. I'm sure I will have more questions as I get into it. This is the first complete system I have put in. I plan on taking my time and having it ready for next spring. Thanks for everyones advice!!

stopdropanroll Here is a link, I plan on doing example #3.

http://support.alpine-usa.com/produc...M_SWR-M100.PDF

I assume 2 ohms is oK. I plan on using PDX1.6. When cutting the holes for the subs. Do you use a recip saw or large hole saw?

This spring I install the Alpine IDA-X100M, PDX 4.150 and PDX 1.600

1.6 pushing 2 Polk Audio 12inch subs and 4.150 pushing 3 sets of polk components. The wireless remote is worthless...Works best about 3 feet from the system. But I am happy with the sound! Amps mounted in cuddy and vented and still gets pretty warm to hot!

I was sceptical on the wireless remote. I planned on putting the amps behind my seat in the mid cabin. I have seen them there on others guys boats and they never said anything about it being to much heat. Would under the back bench seat be better?

I have a 28 Victory which has a similar mid-cabin. I used a six channel JL amp for the cockpit. I put 2-front, 2-rear speakers on separate channels. the two 10" JL subs are on the other two channels. the cockpit sound will blow you out of the water. I ran the bow ant the mid cabin off of the radio amp. the radio amp puts out plenty of power for these small areas. To help with control, i put the blue amp signal wire on a switch so i can turn off the amp and cockpit at night, or when you just want the bow and mid-cabin on. Sweet set-up on an advantage. wireless remote at the helm works great also.

The reason mine maybe running warming is I have them stacked in the cuddy in a smaller cabinet above the sink on my 35 zr, I put 2 vents in. Mine is wired for 2ohm which may cause more heat? But I love the way it sounds. I used the alpine PDX amps because of the small size to power output..I think it would be better if I installed a small fan to circulate the air better. Under the seat as you suggested may be fine as long as it is vented.

That sounds like a good setup. Do you run a wireless remote? If so, have you had any problems?

I'm running 8 speakers off a 4.150 and it is fine. The PDX amps do not get nearly as hot as conventional class a/b amps and they also draw a lot less power.
I can run my stereo at 3/4 volume for 4 hours off a single 29M battery. I also have a 4.100 bridged that powers my subs.

i miss spoke on the wireless remote, it works only in the mid-cabin and bow because the radio is in the mid cabin and has to be in site for the wireless to work. I have a remote located at the helm that is wired into the blue jack on the back of the Sony Radio.

Pretty happy with this set up.

Running 5400 watts of power to drive 5000 watts.
4 PDX 4.150
2 JL 1000

I added 2 80amp Kinetik chargers to keep up with the amp draw.
I can run this forever at full volume.

I add cooling fans to the amps located under the back seat.
The PDX are stacked under the dash and therefore are not confined inside a cabinet. No problems with heating up.

Still have more speakers to install, but it has become quite a project.

What speakers are you running and how many do you have? Are you running 2 or 4 ohms on your amps? I am assuming 2.

I was thinking about addind a wireless remote to the swim platform. But wasnt sure how it would work. Im guessing the distance 10-11' from the head unit. Im not sure if Alpine makes at wired remote or not.

Looks like you could run for days with that setup. How many speakers do you plan to run with 4 amps?

I run 8 DC Gold speakers running at 2 ohms off the PDX 4.150

I am running:
2 JL 12 w7s

20 JL 770s

I have 14 currently installed and just trying to get time to install the other 6.

The JL 770s are awesome.

Here is a pic of speakers located behind the bolster. I am currently working to get the other side done this next week.

Unfortunately this has become a sick addition.

I bet they can hear you coming form miles away. I dont think I could sit in the back seat with the volume up. lol

Do you plan to install any capacitors? If not, you should. ANY good system need it. A good rule of thumb is, to have 1 farad for each 1000w. Install 1 1 farad cap for the sub amp, and a 0.5 farad cap for each mid/high amp. These are crucial for best performance. It does make a big difference.

Another thing is power cable thickness. You should run atleast 2 gauge for the plus and the split it up in 4 gauge at the amps, before and after the caps. If you can get 1 gauge in there, do it. Run 4 gauge for ground cable, 2 if you can.

Don't forget fuses. A big fuse right after the battery 200 Ah in this case and 3 small fuses,a 60 Ah for each 4 ch amp and a 80 Ah for the mono amp, right before the caps.

I know this is the boring part of this, but it's important, and it is with boats as it is with cars. Do it right the first time. If you don't, it WILL ba a pain at some point!

Good luck and happy boating

I planned on putting inline fuses right after the battery. I will be honest most of the stuff you mentioned went way over my head. But thats why I am asking the questions now. The wire will be oversize for sure. I planned on using 0 gauge. I always build heavy so I dont have problems down the line. Glad you told me what else to add and look for.

The PDX amps will only take a 4 guage power and ground wire input into the amps. The power wire guage needed will depend on how far away the amps are mounted from the batteries.

If you put them under the back bench, then you can just run 4 guage to each of them with no problem(that is how mine are). If you go to the mid cabin, then probably 0 guage to dist block and split to 4 guage. Run the same for the ground wires. Run the fuses as close to the battery as you can.

As for cutting holes as you asked about in another post. I use a Dremel with rotozip blades and a circle cutter. I have used a sabre saw in the past and the dremel works better. Expect to use lots of bits/blades. I use about 1 bit for 2 6" holes in fiberglass. I have read that the rotozip tile bits work really well, but have not tried them.

Thanks Griff, you are right. For some reason I thought it was 0 ga. But I just looked at some picture I took of a buddies boat with the same setup and he used 4 ga.

I never even thought about a roto tool. I just figure on using my blue point air recip saw. If always fun to put more tools in the box. :drink:

A short explanation of capacitors. They are "power banks". They store large amounts of power, so when the amp's need power for a big dynamic increase, they will get the power for it. They can deliver the power very fast, and then recharge just as fast. The reason why you need them, is simply, that in your home stereo, you have space. In a car/marine amp you don't. That means, usually in good home stereo, the amp's have the needed size capacitors. In the car amp, the capacitors are small, so therefore you need to install capacitors that are powerfull enough Do a search og google for car stereo capacitors, there should be some good explanations. They are a must for a tight sounding system with headroom and capability to play loud AND clean. In worst case senario, if you don't use capacitors, you will get lots of distortion, and damage something.

I will try and explain the setup I suggested.

From battery - 1 or 0 gauge cable (as short as possible) - inline 200 Ah fuse (I nomally use an automatic fuse for this part) - 1 or 0 gauge cable to distribution block - from distribution block 3 x 4 gauge cahles (as short as possible) - an inline fuse for each amp (as described earlier) - from each fuse, a 4 gauge cable to each of the capacitors (as short as possible) - capacitors (size as described earlier) - from each of the capacitors a 4 gauge cable to each amp (as short as possible). Feel free to ask again.

A good choise of capacitors would be the Rockford Fosgate CPC05-03 ½ farad caps and the Rockford Fosgate RFC1 1farad caps. The ½ farads can be found on the web for 30 bucks a piece and the 1 farad cap for about 65 bucks. I found these links.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...-Digital-.html

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...gate+RFC1.html

A capacitor is a waste of time in a boat, even in cars, most people that are building big systems are playing heavy bass i.e. rock, rap, pop, etc. The cap never gets a chance to build up enough power to be helpful. Caps may help light dimming issues and other CAR related power issues but in a boat most playing gets done with the engines off and tied up or on the sand. And not having a cap is not going to destroy any equipment. Stick to making the fundamentals rock solid, same size ground as power, upgraded charging wire, good batteries, and not playing after a battery cuts out the system. I find that grouping batteries together lessens the play time and drops the summed voltage. I use 200amp or bigger relays instead of "switchers" to isolate each battery. When one goes low, I flip a switch on the dash and turn to a fresh battery then turn off the low battery. I have been doing car/marine audio for 12+ years and have always had the longest playing boats around. I do not sell caps to people, I sell better wire/altenators/and factory wire upgrades and that makes a HUGE difference. If people want to throw money at a cap thats fine but I feel they are old technology and are not effective enough for the money they cost.