ok I want to build a gm big block
 

I know it may cost me more in the long run to do it lunch box style but thats the way it is going to be. I have a 21 foot scarab excel with a freshy rebuilt carbed 454 base 330 hp. MSD blue ign. and dist. Through hull with corsa Q&Q water mixing in exaust at imco riser; Kodiak exaust manifolds. Will only see fresh water. I want more power but not with a blower. I dont want to have dry exaust. I want to lightn it up with at least aluminuim heads. I intend on using my current setup while building a new one.

Thats the plan so far!

I have read on tons of threads but need to just ask my questions strait out. I think that the best way for my success. I pretty well had to do all that reading just to figure out what questions to ask.

I want to first aquire a block to work with. In all my reading the generation of the block seems to be talked about the most. What generation 454 should I stay away from? What is the best one to use? I am looking at what is local to me. Lotsa guys have them around here cheap, but I do not want be limiting myself by chosing the wrong one.

Thanks.

big block
 

Look for one stamped HI PERF from 70 to 74 they were made with high nickle content. or the crate motors LS6 and LS7 blocks I built one for my 67 chevelle in 1990 I used is a driver and raced it put over 150 passes on it with N2O I used to shift it @ 7200rpm.my buddy now has it in his NOVA race car still running the same block and heads.

what about a block casting 3999289 1972 I think?

That's a 73-79 doesn't specify 4 or 2 bolt
https://home.comcast.net/~caseyd55/BBCastingnumbers.htm
mortec.com seems to be down. Better info there

Why dont you find a hp 500 ( 502 ) . It has a good bottom end and just put some good heads on it and then your moving . I have a scarab 22 with hp 465 that i put a dart intake on it, a crane 731 cam and some merlin heads on it and good exhaust and i am turning a labbed 30 four blade and doing 82.5 on gps .

what part of the country do you live in? Have lots of mark IV blocks/stuff and complete 425 hp motors that are sitting around my shop. Just really don't want to have to crate and ship. Would rather have someone pick them up. I am a couple of miles off the Fl turnpike.

I have a cherry gen IV std bore 4 bolt main block, in va

Call Scott at dyno-flo and order a complete short block and save a bunch of time and money !! Been there :drink:

shipping is too huge to here in Canada. I am keeping my eyes open for a 502 block that would be ideal for me. Anything around here is set up for cars thats why I am looking for just a block first. I find people are so full of BS when advertising on line like on craig list and other for sale sites so you cant depend on the internals. I went to look at one on the weekend as advertised as a 454 was in fact a 427 rare corvette block. with the fuel injection and all. I told the guy he was nuts to sell for $500.00. I am still wondering how he made out.

I am serious about building a bullet proof engine that will be exactly what I want.

Question: when, if at all, does the added weight of H billet rods, make it a waste. How much power do you have to be making to use them? Or does it matter? Use them if you can afford them? I intend on getting the crank and rods together from the same place.

Definately run a 4 bolt main, H beam rods and a super top end valve train.The weakest link in BBC's is the valve train, i would recommend Comp or Lunati. Stay away from Crane.

shipping for "2" short blocks was 375 to the border . You will find it a LOT cheaper to buy complete short block than buy all the peaces have the machine work done right and then assemble them. I know that for a fact . But each to their own. good luck :drink:

Jeff.
I just took a look at there site. Good prices there. I will call for a shipping quote. There kits are cheap too. Gunna check this out further.

4 bolt gen IV. Prefer it to be cut .040 or under. That gives me 20 to work with and I don't like blocks cut more then 60 over.
If you want roller then find a Gen VI block that is already set up for it. If not you will spend a ton of money you don't need to.
The Gen V is the middle child. Better then the 4 in some ways but not as good as the 6. IMHO, not doing roller, with a few upgrades the Gen 5 is the motor to build as long as you cover the minor issues that GM missed.

and you didn't buy? If the number where right you could have resold and financed a portion of your build on the profit.:lolhit:

How about a nice 427 Tall Deck truck block...thick cylinder walls!

Realistically, by the time you buy a block, have it all machined, new crank, rods, pistons, etc, you might as well buy a complete shortblock that is NEW. Bolt on your choice of heads, cam, etc.

If you dont want a blower, and want 454CI, 500HP is gonna be about max. stock GM Forged stuff is plenty for that. If starting from scratch, it really doesnt cost all that much more to go bigger CI, 502, 540, etc.

Here you go. Complete drop in. Even has full exhaust, which would work better than those kodiak manifolds.

Buy that, drop it in, keep stock motor for a backup or sell complete.

you wont be able to piece together something for what you can buy this one for. The exhaust alone is worth 1000 bucks used. A decent hyd roller cam kit is around 1000 bucks, cam lifters, etc. Fresh valve jobs, machine work, intake, carb, etc

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...ck-market.html

Toolsinbox- even with the expense of shipping you might want to look at complete package like the hp465/502 that is in the swapshop complete with exhaust. All those parts add up fast....

"I find people are so full of BS when advertising on line like on craig list and other for sale sites so you cant depend on the internals. I went to look at one on the weekend as advertised as a 454 was in fact a 427 rare corvette block. with the fuel injection and all. I told the guy he was nuts to sell for $500.00. I am still wondering how he made out."

Might be a good thing you passed on that deal- does anyone remember a fuel injected 427 being offered? Might have been something rare or might have been a 500 paper weight. :coolcowboy:

Getting the whole thing will take away from my two sons and I building engine. I kinda think that will out weigh the extra cost.

ok a guy has a compleat 454 except carb and alternator; here is what he said when I asked him for the casting details. It is from a 1981 suberban. Anyone have any insite on what I may be looking at?
This is his e-mail

I couldn't quite make out the block casting number but what I could see was - 1 4 _ _ 5 4 4 5 the third number looks like an 8 or a zero, the fourth one is a blob that I can't make out. I spent ten minutes wire brushing it, thats the best I can do. the other numbers on the bell housing are- CON V2 and GM 10 T
hope that helps.

This list says 75-87 454 4 bolt mains.
http://www.chevellebigblock.com/pdf/...ockCasting.pdf

But this one says 78-87 454 2 or 4 bolt mains.
http://www.roadsters.com/bbc/#blocks

Nothing wrong with building something with your sons,
so long as you know the real cost and you have the funds to finish it.
No matter how you slice it you will be looking at $5000 going up from there depending on what HP you are looking for...
May be more fun to do a simple upgrade to what you have since its already rebuilt,throw some heads+cam at it, gain 50-100hp and go out and have fun on the boat with your sons and use the extra money for gas! :)

I did the honest leg work with getting a shortblock to me and the shipping, duty, taxes, to my door or a reasonable pick up place, is huge, so starting from scratch is the way to go for me. If someone sells me a short or long B for say 3 k its goes up to at least 5 k by the time its to my door.
I understand the advice about the cost but its gunna be 5 to 7 grand no matter which way I go so I may as well start from scratch. The only thing that is frustrating the hell out of me is I can't find a 502 block anywhere. I would so much rather start with that platform.
The engine I currently have I will use while I get the other ready. I think I will keep it as a spare or stick it in a truck to sell.
If I can get an engine to my door for 3k I would consider what the goods are but thats not gunna happen. Block, machining, forged internals, takes me to 3k here so thats the math. Don't get me wrong I am thankfull for all trying to save me money and problems, but getting an engine into Canada is expensive.

Your lucky to have 2 sons to enjoy an engine building project with. When I was growing up I was always working on something. Lawn mowers, go carts, mini bikes, motorcycles, cars, trucks and finally boats. My son never did show any interest in this and would rather sit in the house and play video games. You can't make them do something they just don't care about doing. My 16 year old daughter comes out and works with me wanting to learn more than my son ever did. Enjoy it while you can.

All 502 blocks are siamese bore 4 bolt mains. All "factory assembled" 502's are forged crank, good rods, forged pistons, GM rect port heads.

I agree that you would be better off to start with a 502 block, but if you can't find one, you can't find one.

Mk IV motors will require tie-bar roller lifters if you run a roller cam (hyd or solid). Tie-bars are good lifters, but they add mass, and are expensive. Most Gen5 and all Gen6 motors will have factory dogbone roller lifters which are fine up to .550 lift.

Valvetrain is stable when lift is kept moderate and rpm is kept below 5500. Factory valvesprings are a weak link on BBC's. Stay below .550 lift and run good springs for "hands off longevity".

Good luck.

Ya pickle its always a struggle at our home with the kids screen time. I am of the belief that we as parents have to offer an alternative for them and at our home if they don't like my activity then there is always chores to do.

Mcollinstn

That is some great information you laid out for me. Thats the kind of stuff I need the heads up on. I don't fully understand all of it but do get the point that the gen 5 and 6 are set up for a roller application where the gen 4 require aftermarket stuff to make full roller. I hope I understand that correctly. As far as the other info I will cross that bridge when I get there.

Any idea what generation this last suberban engine I have a chance at is ?

What is a "siamese bore"

Where the heck do you live? It costs $450 all in to ship a 502 long block from Massachusetts to my door in Vancouver BC..

I live in Winnipeg.

I would like to here how you did that because I was quoted 2 k to get it done. I called Canada customs and I would pay taxes on a short block or long as if it were being bought new from gm so the tax alone was over 400 bucks.

Who was the shipping company?
what was the tax and duty amount?
where did they deliver it to your home or buisness?
did you have a loading dock? or was it to your home?
I want to here all about how you did this please.

I dont care how I get this block! the cheaper the better and if I can get a 502 that would be sweet. I can always take it apart with kids and click everything back together.

Your right no blowers. call CSU get a carb, call me get turbos, convert your manifolds to accept turbos, make 700 HP, go fast.

Done.LOL

My buddy has a 502 long block for sale right now speak of the devil. Located here in CT Probably needs a re ring and bearing been sitting in storage for a while but was a low low hr engine PM me if interested and I will get you in touch with him.

Id still go turbos if it were me but I am a turbo Junkie

Jeff,
I haven't looked into this at all, but are there any cheap and easy yet completely functional solutions to the issues with turbo temps for marine applications?

Hate to break it to you but you will have to pay the taxes one way or the other !!!! All you have to pay is gst & pst just like buying it at home. As for the 2 K somebody is feeding you a line of sh!t. Talk to somebody at a local trucking company. good luck with your project :drink:

I have to pay the taxes and the duty. The best rate I can get with fuel charge included from NY where another member has a 502 short B is just under 700 beans. Add the taxes and duty and you are at the 2 k mark. I got shipping prices from 700 right up to 1500. The only way I think I could get it cheaper is if the block was bare and shipping was marked as a used scrap or somthing. If the block was in need of rework that could fly. I would never participate in anything that was not above board because its just not worth it.
On another note I called today a local auto recycler that deals in newer type parts for body shops and repair shops etc. they are checking the data base here in Canada. He was supposed to call me today but never did. I spoke to them at 9 am and heard nothing. I plan on calling them back tomorow and find out what the scoop is. I really want a 502 to start with. I feel like I am shooting myself in the foot if I settle for a 454. I have one of those and I want more. I hate the thought of sinking lotsa cash into 454 when it could be a 502. Just hard to wrap my head around. anyhow thats the latest.

quick question. The guy at the recycler asked me what a 502 came in? I told him that I was sure they were in gm 3500 around yr 2002. He said that was the only way he could search if he had what 502s came in. I did a search and cant find what trucks came stock with a 502 can anyone help with that so when I call him back I can give him more ammo. Thanks in advance.

There is NO duty on auto parts made in the US new or used . Been buying parts for my drag car & boats for years . And have always did it strait up because the wife works for the fed's and it's not worth losing her job over. So anybody telling you different does't know what they are talking about. If you have any questions about customs PM me . good luck , Jeff :drink:

Well jeff I dont know what to say to that except I just took possesion of a new MSD distributer shipped by ups from the USA. and paid $54.82 duty on. Can you check on this? Should I have not paid it? They would not have given it to me until I paid It. The shipping cost I paid up front when I bought it. Is UPS scamming me?

30cts
I got a note from your bud out east and I got back to him via e-mail to see if what he has will make sense. Thanks for your help and I will let you know what the scoop is.

I bought a block.
First of all I had a lot of great engines I could have bought, from guys here at great prices but the customs and importing was a trip to h$ll. I thank all who helped because as I researched each one I learned more. Any way here is the photo of it. Please look at it and tell me what you think.

http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/a...enginepic1.jpg

It is a mark 4 bowtie block tall deck with a 4.600 bore. I am wondering if I use the standard roller lifters of do I need the after market type with the conectors or what. Please tell me what you can as I need to buy everything for this.
Thanks

You will need a aftermarket mark lV retrofit cam and lifter set up. Mark lV's never did come with rollers. Looks like the lifter bores have been sleeved. How many cu.in.'s you go'n for.