You can always plug an after market ECU into your system. The new Fast 2.0 has a self tuning mode, not that hard to set up. We've run them on boats for 14 years now.

My heads are iron heads that came with the 600 hawk motors. I had them worked on. I assume I will have to change a lot on my engines. I need to get my spec sheet on the details of my motors and post them. Maybe someone with some knowledge can help me get some major HP. After I posted this, I did not realize I could get 1000hp if I wanted. I am going to put Arneson ASD7Ms on the boat. After it is installed, my next step is to update then engine. I may want more than 850hp. I don't know my options.

You might want to contact some engine builders if you haven't already done so.

I am in the process. My engine builder told me he likes Vortec over Procharger. I don't know why. Also, he stated that the prochager intercoolers use to rust in salt water because it was made of aluminum. Prochager may have changed that by now and he was not sure. He said the Whipple Quad Intercooler is made out of something else and does not rust. No matter if I go with Whipple, Procharger, or Vortec....I have to make sure that it fits under the engine hatch. If anyone has a 502 block bored to something else and is making between 850-1100hp on super unleaded, it would be nice to know the entire setup, assuming it is low profile.

The End Result?
 

Obviously there are a lot of good marine performance engine builders who can put this type of package together for you, so its probably going to be more important which one can build or help with the on the dyno and in the boat actual fuel mapping and programming that will be needed to get your final Whipple, Pro Charger, Vortec supercharged engine set up correctly so that it will provide some good lomg hours of reliable trouble free usage and not just big numbers off a dyno or in specs and "dock racing"
A couple who come to mind here on OSO with good history and results in this type of build , Mark @ Precsion Marine, Bob @ Full Throttle, Eddie @ Young, Mark @ Mer, Dustin @ Whipple, Alex @ Boostpower,etc.
My suggestion is to go with someone who can do more than just build the package, but someone who can get it totally dialed in on the water for your hard earned dollars and piece of mind!

Old chinese Proverb say: "IF IT WAS EASY, ANYBODY COULD DO IT!


Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Well...a whipple 3.3 FI setup is pretty damn low and you cant beat it as far as looks/packaging. Will it support 1100hp?? I dont know...but whipple has 4 and 5 liter that most likely will. I personally dont care for bracketry and side mount of a procharger in a boat. I have spoken personally with lightningjet...he could not keep a belt on his setup after many attempts/mods. Not to say he couldnt have gotten it to work but how long do you want to fight it?

I only brought up the big SC's because another person brought up the F4 or whatever. We can make just as much power as the Procharger, this is not opinion, this is fact. Its pretty simple, all our SC's are tested on supercharger testers which measure power consumption, temps, etc. Many others do this as well so when talking of just the SC, there really is no guess, we know what it can and can't do and what others can and can't do.

As I said before, it comes to the package. If you can put a 300lb intercooler in the passenger seat and duct the air, you can run 30psi and keep control of the temps, but we can't put that under the SC so we can't compete in that market. So each has its own market and abilities.

To even remotely compare torque curves is really poor judgement. I know you know the fundamental differences of a positive displacement SC vs. a centrifugal. Its is theoratically impossible for a centrifugal to pump as much air at low rpms unless a wastegate or boost control valve is used and the SC is spun at a much higher rate. Its just not possible. Can they make good torque? Well thats up to the user and what there happy with, in most cases, yes they would make good torque. But, is it close to what a twin screw setup does? Not even remotely close.

You might be better off turning your 502s into 540s, with good flowing aluminum heads, cam and exhaust, and either one of the superchargers mentioned, you should reach your HP goal. What RPM range do you want to make the most power ? If your engine compartment is tight can you get enough air into it to feed the motors ? Will the hull handle the HP and speed increase or just become extremely dangerous.

As mentioned most boat's have trouble getting enough air in the engine conpartment to run stock power . I'm running pro chargers on hp 500's with a cam change and headers and making 750 hp at 7 lb. boost . Works great and no problems at all . Building a pair of 598's which I plan on using 5 litre whipples , just waiting for Dustin to put them on sale :drink:

I am real happy with my 500efi Whipple kits.Good power and lots of TQ even with my semi stock motors,Its a simple kit you can do yourself.With the mefi 4 computer there are known maps for a lot of combinations, My basic map was right on and didnt need any on the water tuneing.I would do it again!!

Rob:drink:



http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...-build-up.html

Whipple is the way to go. I had a set of Whipple motors in my Hustler and the motors were great!

I would like to see a back to back test, Whipple vs Procharger,
same motor, same dyno, same basic size blowers, no payoffs, no BS, no changing parts, either pump gas or race gas, or both. No excuses.

Tough back to back comparison
 

I think that type of back to back comparison might be like apples and oranges in many ways. They are both great superchargers and their histories show that. They both just produce some of their power and torque at different rpms and there are also differences with time period it takes between the two types of superchargers to make their power. They both provide ways to greatly increase power over N/A engines, they just do it differently.
They both have pluses and some minuses as many products do, but to make a definitive direct comparison might be a bit confusing for some interested boaters unless you really measured a lot of parameters and made a lot of cross comparisons based on usage.
Like I said they are both fruits, they just have different tastes?

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

It may just help the consumer to make an educated decision on which product would work best for their application.

How many boats need more then 1000+ lbs of torque at 3000RPM? That's a serious question. I have never heard a reasonable response to this.

If someone required 20lbs of boost 3000 rpm with a PC it is very easily acomplished through off the shelf components. Most drives don't like a ton of torque so the way the PC ramps in the boost usually works best but, like I said if you want more down low it's no problem. I always assumed PC's produced less heat then the Whipple because it's so easy to run 12-15 lbs boost on pump gas. I guess maybe it's the intercooler sizing.

You have said a few times that your SC is just as efficient as an equally sized PC. What is the rough comparison on models just out of curiosty and do you have a theoretical max hp for each of your units? For comparison, I have made 830hp with an M1, 1260hp with an M3, and I believe Dennis r is around 1450hp with the M4, We should know more about the M5 soon but even the M4 is pushing the limits of pump gas.

For GPM's shootout I agree with Ray. Both engines require different builds to maximize either system. If you want a real battle pick any displacement, pump gas only, and anything else goes. That would be cool.

[QUOTE=HaxbySpeed;3408189

For GPM's shootout I agree with Ray. Both engines require different builds to maximize either system. If you want a real battle pick any displacement, pump gas only, and anything else goes. That would be cool.[/QUOTE]

OK, same cubic inch, same bore and stroke, same rod length, same heads, Actual 92 octane pump gas only. Sure would like to see the results !

[/QUOTE Whipple Charged]
To even remotely compare torque curves is really poor judgement. I know you know the fundamental differences of a positive displacement SC vs. a centrifugal. Its is theoratically impossible for a centrifugal to pump as much air at low rpms unless a wastegate or boost control valve is used and the SC is spun at a much higher rate. Its just not possible. Can they make good torque? Well thats up to the user and what there happy with, in most cases, yes they would make good torque. But, is it close to what a twin screw setup does? Not even remotely close.

Just curious, if I was running a PC with a waste gate, how would the bottom end torque compare to the Whipple on the same basic engine ?

You still would have trouble comparing below 2000rpm but in mid range you could get similar torque levels. But throttle response would still be far less. The problem is too much boost control on top with a centrifugal drops big power and takes quite a bit of fuel. Furthermore, you can easily do the same with the twin screw, Chief has been doing this for a few years now. 2 years ago, the P1 motors we had made 750hp from 3000-7000rpm with boost control. My personal motors, going in my SV43 has boost control so I can control peak boost.

looks like whipple is on here promoting/defending his product. wheres procharger? this is very interesting to me as i want to get rid of my 256 and make more power.

Dustin (Whipple) is very involved in the boating industry...and is quite active on the forums...performance boating is his passion...and it shows!

I don't think you can say the same for the owners of pro-charger and vortec....and it shows.

Chris

CB-BLR, I believe Jim Sommers was heading up Prochargers marine stuff, he passed away last October, not sure if anyone has taken his place.

Don't hold your breath to see Procharger ever come on here, like has been said there customer support is virtuually no-existent, Smitty

Please expand more on dumps more fuel @ low rpm. Does the centrifugal use more fuel in the low & cruise RPM?

Whenever you recirculate or dump boost on a supercharger, it still takes HP to move that air. To move even more air, it takes even more power. Superchargers are basically pumps so it always takes more power to move more air. Turbo's aren't like this. So boost control is good to a point, but too much of it requires too much power loss.

If your not using boost control does the centrifugal use more fuel in the low & cruise RPM than the SC also?

**

The generalizations and psuedo information is killing me. If you'd like to have a technical discussion about boost management, Hp to to turn x-blower at x-rpm, and other such useful information then provide some more detail and facts.. You still haven't answered any of my previous questions, and I still stand by my initial statement.


Procharger Nation :evilb:

If this keeps going I might have to tear the Whipple's off my own boat.. :grinser010:

So there is no one at LOTO can properly tune Prochargers if I will install them?

Yes & no. Ben @ www.mefituning.com would be your best source for a tune.

Procharger
 

Thank u I will look into

my pro systems carb worked spot on right out of the box !! love my procharger !

ok,iv been watching this thread,now il chime in,i just finished a pair of 588s,dart 355cnc heads,whipple 8.3L,and a fairly big hyd roller cam,just north of 1200 hp at 6500.i did a pair of 523 inch motors with edelbrock heads,minor blending of bowls,almost identical cams as my 588s,with m4 procharger,it made 1298 hp at 6500,on the same dyno as my 588s.damb near 100 hp more,my 588 were at 12 lbs boost,not sure if i want to go any higher on boost with 92 octane,the m4motors were at 16 lbs boost,and safe at that with 92 octane,will the 588s make more hp at 16 lbs boost,yes,would it be safe on 92 octane,i dont know,and not going to find out,maybe dustin can answer that,i cant.buy the way,both engines are carburated,no fuel injection.is it safe to say the pro charged motor makes more power,yes,if the pro charger was on my 588s,id look for 1400 hp,on 92 octane.now,wich will be more efficiant for most boating,hands down,the whipple engine,pulls like a trane from idle all the way to max rpm,the pro charged engine,dead under 4000 rpm.if these engines were in identical boats,crusing at 3500 rpm,and then both wacked the throttels,the whipple boat will leave the pro charged boat,and that xtra 100 hp wont catch up for a mile,by then,the race is over!

just wondering,did you dyno the engine?

Mike, can you post the dyno sheets on the 2 motors just for comparison,

i have the sheets,but i dont know how to do pictures on here.

If you have them on your computer, in reply, click manage attachments, click browse, find them, click on them, click upload, click submit reply.

That was my thought also. The whipple product is by a boater for boaters and is the best turn key diy kit. Dustin is easy to reach if you need info. Customer service is extremely hard to find in this (or any) industry.

Which blower makes the most HP? They can make equal boost with similar sized blowers, but PC can boost higher on pump gas as they have the biggest intercooler. Thats a bench racing arguement and has nothing to do with being fastest on the water, and turn key all season. PC's huge intercooler is a huge advantage, Whipples around when you need help and has the bugs worked out of his kits. I would choose the one who backs their products.

What was the cost difference between the Whipple and Procharger systems ?

the pro chargers were on the engines that i rebuilt,so i dont know the cost of those,the 8.3L whippels were 7000.each,that does not include carbs,drive snouts, or anything else you need to make them work,i allready had these components.

I am watching the thread also. Thinking about supercharger for 502MPI mag but concern about the Bravo? Don't want huge HP just basic upgrade but don't want to blow up the drives. It will become very costly. So Prochages got set up and running issues but easier on drives than whipples. So not sure what to do. Don't want to change my boat with stronger drives! Any thoughts?