synthetic oil in 500EFI?
 

i know this has been written about a lot but, specifically, is there a reason not to run synthetic oil in the 500EFI? They are 2001 engines.
thanks
dan

The only reason I can think of would be if they leak or not. Synthetics will get through that leak much easier, otherwise, no problem using it.

I am under the understanding that the syn oil is to slippery on the rooler lifters and will not allow the roller on the lifter to spin on the can causing cam damage and lifter damage. Also there is the lack of zink in the oil.

Lots of different opinions on that now but that is why I won't run full synthetic in my 525.

I have been running Mobil one or Royal purple in my 500EFI since 2002 not a single problem. Both were in the 20W 50 weights. I have had two diffrent boats. Five, 500EFI's between the two.

No reason at all not to run synthetic oil in a 500EFI.

Thats why you need to use an oil with Zinc in it. It hasn't been removed from all oils. All racing oils are still very fortified with zinc, and so are most diesel oils, non CJ-4.

But why do so many people say otherwise? This is copied from MercuryRacing.comtechquestions:

What type of oil should I use? Can I use synthetic oil?
To help obtain optimum engine performance and to provide maximum protection, we recommend the use of Mercury Precision 4-Cycle 25W-40 Marine Engine Oil. This oil is a special blend of 25-weight and 40-weight oils for marine engines. If not available, a good grade, straight weight, detergent automotive oil of correct viscosity, with an API service rating of SH,CF/CF-2 may be used.

In those areas where Mercury Precision 4-Cycle 25W-40 Marine Engine Oil or a recommended straight weight oil is not available, a multi-viscosity 20W-40 or, as a second but less preferable choice, 20W-50, with API service ratings of SH,CF/CF-2 may be used.

IMPORTANT: The use of non-detergent oils, multi-viscosity oils (other than Quicksilver 25W-40 or a good quality 20W-40 or 20W-50), synthetic oils, low quality oils or oils that contain solid additives are specifically NOT recommended.

The table below is a guide to crankcase oil selection. The oil filter should always be changed with the engine oil.

Air Temperature Oil Type
All Temperatures Mercury Precision 4-Cycle 25W-40 Marine Engine Oil
Below 32? F (0? C) SAE 20W
32-50? F (0-10? C) SAE 30W
Above 50? F (10? C) SAE 40W

This crankcase oil recommendation supersedes all previously printed crankcase oil recommendations for Mercury Racing gasoline engines. The reason for this change is to include the newer engine oils that are now available in the recommendation.

Older owner manuals, service manuals and other publications that are not regularly updated will not be revised to show this latest engine oil recommendation. Current owners manuals, service manuals and other service publications that receive regular updates will receive this revised recommendation the next time they are updated.

IMPORTANT: The use of non-detergent oils, multi-viscosity oils (other than Quicksilver 25W-40 or a good quality 20W-40 or 20W-50), synthetic oils, low quality oils or oils that contain solid additives are specifically NOT recommended.
Come on really? Can this be any more vague, and/or pushing you on the Merc products? A multi viscosity is not recommended except for Merc, or a "high quality" 20-40 or 20-50. Any oil can be used that meets or exceeds their specs, SH, CF/CF-2. And, I believe today, Merc recommends synthetic in their 525's.

Not vague at all. It specifically excludes only "the use of non-detergent oils, multi-viscosity oils (other than Quicksilver 25W-40 or a good quality 20W-40 or 20W-50), synthetic oils, low quality oils or oils that contain solid additives". I do not believe that has changed except in Teague's world since he is now sponsored by Amsoil. The quote that I copied from Mercury's web site is copyrighted 2011. Full synthetic is recommended in Mercruiser production engines only.

ok, so why not synthetic oil in the 500EFI's???

Remember Mercury does not make their own oil they have it blended to their specs. What does Mercury know that Mobil Royal Purple and the others don't know about racing engines.

I don't know but I use the Mercury 20w40 and change it 3 times each season.

I have always run full synthetics... myself and the previous owner always used Mobil 1 15w-50 and got 500 hours on them. When we freshened them up, the motors looked great. Thats reason enough for me.... Now since my rebuilds, I ONLY run Amsoil Dominator Racing oil 15w-50... and I sleep just fine at night. I have 502's with SC's making 6 pounds of boost....
At the end of the day, its cheap insurance.

The one conversation I had with the team at Merc Racing about syn oil was explained to me as they contain too much parafin??? Not sure what that has to do with it - but that's the quote I got....

Parrifin is in a petroleum oil, not synthetic.


See how much Mercury knows about oil.

Ken

has anyone seen premature failure as a result of using synthetic in 500efi? if the rollers on the cam cant spin properly on synthetic, then there would be synthetic users reporting cam failure of some sort. maybe this is a problem at high rpm only?

harley tried to pull the same story on us''dont use synthetics in our engines!!'' now that they sell it,its a different story...we opened hundreds of H-D engines running synthetics,with no evidence of rollers sliding on the cams...just imagine a roller sliding on a cam with 180 pounds of spring on its head...that doesn't happen...everything i own with an engine runs synthetic oil
jack
hdr precision

Minxguy is absolutely right. It's the mineral oil that contains parrifin's not the synthetic. The parrifin's are a "waxy" buildup and sometimes cause a gasket to swell.. The synthetic actually cleans that build up. So, think about a timing chain seal. If it has swollen and of course the crank revolving is causing some sort of wear to the seal. Now shrink that seal back down and you have a leak. But, in my opinion the real reason to use a synthetic is because it is just a better product. Not even talking about who is better! If you could see the molecules in the mineral oil you would find they are not the same size. If you take a one foot square piece of glass and place it on top of 100 rocks of roughly the same size how many rocks do you think it will contact.........10 or 15 (10-15%). Remove the rocks and place 100 man made marble's under the glass. Now it contacts 100%. That is what the synthetic does for you as it is man made. Would you rather have a bearing contacting the crank at 15% of the surface or 100%?

Everytime I read these threads on use of synthetic oils in Mercury Racing engines and those comments about roller lifters not rolling properly over roller camshafts I absolutly CRACK UP and if I am drinking hot coffee or otherwise I usally spit it out laughing my ass off! I am always amazed at the Bullsh*t spread around about the use of synthetics in marine engines! Use the correct weights and types and you will ALWAYS have less wear, less heat and more power using synthetics PERIOD!

Parafin in synthetics - WOW that Merc rep must have been smok'in his crack pipe to hard!:lolhit:

Someone's gonna have to bend my mind real hard to get me to change my experience in this area. You take apart, build and manufacture as many engines as I have and others in the industry who know the benefits of proper synthetic oil use and your gonna be old and gray before you ever convince us otherwise!

Mercury's 25-40w blended premium (Quicksilver) oil is a very good quality oil and will work wondefully in any Mercury engine where its recommended. You should probably buy some Mercury (Brunswick) stock at the same time and maybe you get a little return on that big investment in their promoted-overhyped oils?

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Ray you don`t know what you`re talking about!
My mothers, sisters, cousins, daughter in laws across the street neighbor who has flake paint bass said synthetics make his pistons slide too fast in the motor! Thats all the proof i need buddy!

Too slippery. Geeez, I didn't even want to go there, but as Ray says LOL. Think about what a person is saying when they say it is too slippery. If it were that slippery that the roller wasn't spinning than how would it wear? The cam and lifter are wearing as a result of too much friction not too little friction! Most of the problems go back to a period in time where a certain "large" DOMESTIC lifter company went out of business. Domestic is the key word here. The cam and lifter manufacturers needed to blame somebody for the new problem of wiping out their cam and lifters. The oil must be the culprit.

ray,they sell plastic covers that go over your keyboard to prevent coffee spills!! :lolhit:

like Ray I always laugh when I see stuff like this. too slippery for roller lifters? then how come nearly every factory performance engine, i.e. corvette, specifies synthetic oil? as far as I know most every engine built since the mid ninties has been roller lifter including my GMC 3500 that has had mobile 1 15-50 in for over 270,000 miles now. our open class motors and super cat motors ran for hours at 7800 rpm all with synthetics. one of our super cat motors lost water and ran for two miles at 7800, the oil temp gauge only went to 300 degrees and was still pegged hours later. when it was pulled apart it looked perfect inside with no signs of heat damage, in fact other than the heads being warped and the rings loosing tension you would never have known it got hot. after that you will have a hard time convincing me that synthetics cause any problems.

Been using Mobil One almost since it first came out in a number of boats that I have owned over the years and NEVER had an engine failure --- Dont worry about the small sh$t !!!!!.If its good enough for Indy,Nascar and drag racers its good enough to put in your boat engines........ I put Mobil One in every thing I own including my Gen set....



Jim

Hey, it looks like I over reacted to the Mercury sales rep answer about paraffin in synthetics.

I being a purist, when I hear synthetic used to describe an oil or base stock, I think of a true synthetic, Group IV or Group V, a man made base stock, one that has uniform molecular size.

There is unfortunately a Group III synthetic base stock, which is nothing more than a highly refined petroleum base stock, therefore, you can find paraffin in a synthetic base stock.

I guess I have to say hats off to the Merc rep.


Ken

If you need a GOOD reason to not run fake oil...go look at this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZxC7...2&feature=plcp . This 502 motor came out of a 32 Fountain running Mercruiiser fake oil and the manifold sprung a leak and loaded the motor up with water. It mixed with the fake oil and not only did it do the mike-shake thing...the stuff was more like a thick pan cake batter. This stuff was very slick, but also very sticky. It did not all drain out. After it quit running out, I pulled the motor apart and then went to the car wash and spent $35.00 trying to get this crap out of the motor.

If you run fake oil and get a water leak on the inside, you can not flush the motor and refill it with oil...you will have to totally take the engine apart...wash it and cook it to get the stuff out.

What do we think of using synthetic oils in a flat tappet motor?

Pslonaker:

I have personally torn more engines down with water and coolant intrusion in them then you have probably dreamed about and many were using synthetic oils and as with all engines with water in the oil and after the milkshake event it takes a good solvent wash to remove the mixtures and resulting goo whether they are conventional or synthetic.

Please also remember that Mercruiser 25-40w Quicksilver oil is a blend of conventional and synthetic bases and not pure synthetic or "fake" as you so vividly describe it.
The truth is with water in an engine the synthetics will do a better job of continuing lubrication than a conventioal oil with water or coolant mixed with the oil.

The biggest issue most boaters have with oil in their engines is using the wrong weight oil and the incorrect type for their applications. Good conventional oils can do a good job properly weighted and typed and all oils wrongly applied either conventional or synthetic (fake) can cuase issues and problems in marine engines.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Rivermonkey, synthetics will work just fine in a flat tappet motor as will petroleum based oils

The big issue with both is diminished levels of zinc/phosphorus, the anti-wear additive.

All major auto/diesel oils have lower levels of zinc. They have to to have the latest API rating.

I have been running Spectro Motorguard oils for years and the oils have levels of anti-wear in the 1600-1800 parts per million. Unheard of in today's lubricant market.

Ken

PSLONAKER,you are needed on the cardshark thread,no one wants to hear your BS over here.

Salt water and oil always makes a mess, regardless if the oil is syn or dino.

Lucas makes a Zinc-heavy "break in additive".
It's something on the order of 36,000ppm of Zinc (and high phosphorus as well).

They can't market it as a "regular" oil additive because it would then be required to NOT alter the oil chemistry outside of the SM/SN specification (somebody quoted a Merc manual stating somethign about SH oils - man, don't I WISH we could still get SH oils.....).

Doing the math and testing it myself, you can add 1 ounce of the Lucas Break In Additive w/Zinc to a quart of SM oil and end up at 1600ppm zinc. For lawn mower engines (flat tappet beasties that they are), I doctor up every quart I use.

For cars and boats with roller lifters? No need for the extra zinc unless you are running something that's severely overstressed.

With that said, synthetic is a superior lubricant under a wider range of temperatures.
MC

So how many Mercury oils are there?

Is it true there are three?
1 Original 25W-40
2 Blended semi synthethic 25W-40
3 Full synthetic 20W-40

Which one would be the best for 500/525 engines? I heard their most recent full synthetic product actually has less of the formerly used antiwear additives because it could hurt catalytic converters. Well, I don't have cats and want the best oil! What about AMSoil Dominator 15W-50?

Thanks, Andy

Take a look at this video. This is what happens if you have a screw up and get water in the oil. It is nothing like dino oil and this crap that I am draining out IS Mercury synthic oil. Are you SURE you want to go there???


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZxC7...5&feature=plcp

Those are the only 3 I know of from Merc. Funny the manual for my 525 only recommends the orginal 25w-40 stuff. I wonder why the wouldn't recommend their syn. stuff?

you cannot use synthetic oil in any marine engine,the rollers on the lifters will slide into infinity,the pistons wont have enough drag,the bearings wont have enough friction,the harmonic balancer wont sing the right tune,the spark plugs will turn pink,and the exhaust will smell like sulpher,never attempt to use it in any marine engine,period.

:lolhit: :drink:

Sorry Dude, but I know if you chose to ignore the people on this forum (Ray) that make a living and stake their reputation on what they know and sell that is your prerogative. There is a reason that Chevrolet chose to put synthetics in the Corvette many many years ago. It is a know fact that synthetics perform BETTER than conventional oils in ALL categories.

Mobil 1 15w-50 has 1300 ppm of zinc in it and that is what I run in my 1980 twin turboed BBC

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf