Guys need some supercharger advice ! and boat information
 

hey guys I bought a 20.5 Cougar Custom 454 EFI currentley running a 25 inch pitch Tempest 3 blade .. I was wondering if anyone has ever had one of these boats and really pushed the hull to see how fast it would go .. I was also thinking of bolting on a supercharger ?? is it worth it? if so which ones are good and which ones should i stay away from?? I had a 23 mirage on this thing last weekend it runs about 75mph .. havent tryed the 25 pitch yet .. just a little more would be nice.. any info would be great as well as some website links if someone could help .. i would like to get my hands on a good used one.. but how is the tuning done? once you bolt the thing on .. last thing i want to do is turn this thing into a nightmatre its a turn key boat right now ! thanks guys

Daniel :drink:

No such thing as bolting on a supercharger and having reliablitiy. The procharger and whipple charger are options for you if your engine is a 454 Magnum. If it is not a magnum the internal components are not up to the task.
I am a fan of superchargers, but you must upgrade your fuel lines remap ecu's, have sufficient exhaust, etc......
Do the supercharger, but do it right or not at all.

75 mph in a 20 foot boat is scootin'. If you want to go faster than that in that hull, make sure your steering is up to the task. You are getting into the speeds where hydraulic steering becomes a necessity. Also, you may encounter some dangerous handling characteristics when you hit the limits that the hull was designed for. Things can get scary in a hurry at those speeds. Make use of your jacket and lanyard, and consider upping your life insurance. :)

SkiDoc covered the supercharger thing pretty well. You have to know what you are doing, especially with carb tuning. You can't just "slap on a supercharger" on a boat.

Good luck, and have fun.

hey thanks guys
 

has anyone bolted on a supercharger on this kind of boat? yes it is the magnum the good one ... it seems fine at 75.. how much would a supercharger push me up too? I hurd of a guy with the same boat that was running 90s on gps with extended trim tabs etc.. trying to find him lol .. built big block apparentley .. does anyone have a used one for sale if so is it worth it to go used or new? like you said do it right .. thats the way i will do it I dont half job anything

let me know
thanks
daniel

Look at the project from long term perspective before you go on. Be honest and ask yourself, what kind of boating do I want to do? Is this boat likely to make me happy for several years? What is my budget? I found out that increasing speed costs a lot of money. Say you add a supercharger and necessessities, hydraulic steering, tabs, guages, prop, drive upgrades, hatch changes, etc......you are going to do things that really will not be able to be recouped in a sale.
The Cougar boat is nice. If you know you
will be happy with it go for it. Conservative boost
could add 200 hp. Probably 15 mph in a light
boat.

hey
 

it already has Hydraulic Steering .. it was changed a couple years ago.. The leg is still good to go its a Bravo Leg .. apparentley would handle the hp np... how would the hatch work ? would it need to be modified? I know superchargers build alot of heat .. but not sure how you could modify the hatch to keep it cool.. have you had a look at the 20.5 Cougar? to see what the hatch is like .. I strictly use the boat on a fair size lake we have a cabin on.. doesnt ever go for long rides around non stop pretty much use it for half a hour shut it down for a bit .. im planning on having the boat for awhile my uncle had the boat made from cougar I bought it from him .. always loved it so I dont plan on selling it anytime soon ... and from what ive seen on sites you can get a new supercharger for around 5500 or used one for like 3000.. some nice deals on used ones .. just would want to make sure it was in good shape .. thanks alot for the info Skidoc .. do you know of anyone bolting on a supercharger to this style of boat?

5500 for the blower and then all you need is 2 carb's 1 chiller a cam and lifters , carb linkage , spark arrestor's , fuel line's , fuel pump , fuel regulator and a good set of heads would be nice and good exhaust . Can you see where this is going ? As mentioned, NO such thing as a bolt on super charger !!! Just saying , good luck Jeff

Add stronger drive, bigger oil cooler and lines,several props,better crank, rods, pistons-the list just keeps growing, I KNOW!!:eek:

Was that 75 on speedometer or GPS ? you really should find out what speed that hull was designed to run, right side up.

I upgraded my weiand 256 to an 871. I had $3300 into the used 871 with whipple chiller. Paid my mechanic to $500 to put it on plus $200 in misc. fittings/hoses/parts. Had to revamp hatch at a $1000. Cockpit cover $200. So I am at over $5000 just to upgrade a known weak-link blower. What I am getting at is that you would be farther ahead selling what you have and buying another boat with a premium motor package.

hey it was on GPS .... well like i said ill be having the boat for a long time .. and have some money laying around .. the stock cranks in those magnum 454 EFI s? cant handle the 5 pounds of boost they would be running? aswell and same goes for the pistons and rods? do you need to do this all at once? I could see if I was running more boost but 5 isnt too much .. I tried to get ahold of cougar to find out about hull speed no such luck so far .. also the drive? what would I upgrade too? everyone i talked to so far said the leg on this thing is a good leg and would handle the hp from a supercharger? ill try to find the specs on it for you guys

also carbs?? its EFI

I'm not saying not to add the supercharger, just saying be careful, it may handle fine at 90 and kill you at 91. It's a small V hull, Just an opinion.

And if you want to keep it EFI that will cost MORE than carb's !! Because you sure can't use the EFI off your 454 on a blower set up . :eek: We are just trying to give you some free advice that a lot of us on here learned the hard way .:drink: OH to be young again .

Might not have been hard but it sure was EXPENSIVE!

Man, I'm spendin thousands now just trying to squeak out 2-3 more mph. If you want to do more than 75mph, get a bigger boat. Even if you don't hurt yourself or someone else your gonna ruin the comfort and usability of the boat for example, cutting up the hatch to install a scoop and not being able to have the honeys lay out on the back.

thanks guys
 

haha they aint laying on the hatch anyways lol ... well with the EFI i thought all you have to do is get it programmed? thanks alot for the advice guys im just trying to work all the bugs out im thinking of starting this in september .. for a winter project.. just want to know what to do first etc.. im sure there has to be someone out there that has messed with this hull or something similar at 75 it feels fine .. and i know with more hp i could keep the leg trimmed down more .. im sure it would handle 85 fairly easy ..

PS thanks for helping out the youngster lol im 25 getting old now

Find a 454 mag or 502 with the good internals add a EFI Whipple to it and be done! Cheap NO but would be the most reliable IMO.

I had a merc 6.2 done over the winter with head swap, cam, and piston change along with a EFI Whipple took boat from the low 70's to 89 and am still working with props and mines an 18' Donzi Classic, in that size hull every 10 mph past 70 feels like about 25! I've spent the last 5 years getting the boat dialed in with steering, shorty, and some other small moods in preparation for the bigger power along with nearly 400 hrs of seat time, just dropping in a bunch of HP in a fairly new to you boat without learning how it responds is prolly not a good idea.
If you really wanna run those speeds take baby steps and really learn the boat and it's limits, your friends and family will thank you later for it!

Steve

The internals from the 454 mag EFI are good for the whipple system. Whipple comes with it own intake, fuel pump and injectors. You may need to change fuel line, water seperator and pickup in tank. Depending on the year it is and if it has MEFI 1, 2, or 3, Dustin Whipple can reprogram it. You may have to upgrade the ECU but Dustin can hook you up with what is needed. How many hours are on the motor?
If you add any supercharger, I can not stress enough about installing new head gaskets. Cometic are what I would use, but I have used Felpro and not had problems. Even if it doesn't have many hours the stock head gaskets will not hold up, and you will be replacing them within a year or 2, but could cause more damage when they blow out.
Sounds like to fun winter project. At 20' that thing will be a rocket.

Some good advice by 28Eliminator, as well as the other guys. Don't forget to upgrade the exhaust valves to a high grade alloy like inconnel or the Ferrea Super Alloy. Lots of threads on here that touch on the need for this. Also, with EFI, stick with a shop that has a lot of experience with EFI superchargers. Get the mapping wrong on this and lean it out and bye bye motor.

The stock Bravo will probably handle the power in a light boat if you use common sense. However, a light boat like that will have more tendency to get the prop out of the water, and the loading/unloading/loading is what kills drives.

Rule of thumb is take your initial estimate for the upgrades, double it, and then multiply by an additional 20% for all the little clusters that will bite you in the ass. Remember, BOAT is an acronym for Break Out Another Thousand, and this is especially true for the high performance variety.

hey
 

thanks alot guys great advice .. sorry for any confusion this is a 454 EFI magnum motor with good internals .. can someone provide me with some links on where to buy the whipple or supercharger as well as the exhaust valves? sorry for the conufsion also ive been driving this boat for years my uncle owned it before me and ive been running it for a long time aswell as running a boat all my life .. my dad has a 19 ft modified tunnel from cougar with a 2.5 racing merc ive been running since i was 13 lol ... thanks alot guys seems like im heading in the right direction .. also for hours the motor is at 450 right now and it isnt hard ran hours at all ..

450 hours and your thinking of adding a SC?
I would seriously consider a complete refresh, add your SC, and all the extras... and consider upgrading to at least a Bravo 1 XR. No way would a B1 last... I spent 22k freshening up two 502's in my cig 2 years ago. already had blowers, and the XR drives... hope you realize how spendy of a job this will be... whatever you are budgeting - double it. Think I am kidding on that - ask some folks on here. Good luck!

hey
 

like i said the hours on the boat have not been wide open hours at all .. thing has been never really been pushed .. also we have done compression tests etc .. the motor is fresh .. and this boat would be for just cruising around the lake im not doing any hardcore driving etc.. I thought the leg would be fine? i wont be doing any hole shots etc.. anyways thanks for the advice aswell does someone have some links for the parts that i needed? also forgot to say the boat has only ever been ran in fresh water never been in the salt at all

Your reading the word's but NOTHING is sinking in !!!!!!!!!!!! So if you must , spend away , your local part's guy is going to love you .:rolleyes:

Hmmm, adding a supercharger and "just cruising"? That would be a little bit like John Holmes saying he is only going to use four inches! :D

hey
 

lol well obviously im going to run it wide open just trying to get the point across .. that the boat doesn't get beat on at all ... and yes i am reading the words .. and what im getting is if your going to do it , do it right which im planning on doing it right .. does anyone have some links for all the stuff im going to need to do it .. and one of the good things is i have a mechanic that will bolt it all on for me for free .. to save me some money there .. I dont see any reason why this boat couldn't handle another 10-15 mph .. rides nice and smooth at 75

You obviously need to learn a valuable lesson the hard way (expensive way) Just because the boat handles good at 75 mph, means NOTHING. It could all go to chit at 80.
Next, you should NOT put a supercharger on an engine with 450 hours, no matter how easy it was run. It needs to be freshened (at least the top end) before adding an SC. Doesn't matter if it was idled for 450 hours. At a minimum, freshen the top end. You need to replace the head gaskets and exhaust valves any way. They WILL NOT stand up to 5 psi of boost.
If you get your buddy to do it for free, then you will get exactly what you pay for.......NOTHING. Is he a MARINE engine builder? Has he done any marine engine work before? If not, he has no business working on it. Remember the part about doing it right? That included having an experienced shop doing the work correctly. Is your buddy going to warranty it when it breaks? Is he going to buy you all new parts when the rods ventilate the oil pan? Probably not. Pay someone that knows what they are doing.
I'm not trying to be a dick. I have had many of these come into my shop over the years. They all started this exact same way. You are going to spend 8-10K minimum to do it right. Spend it now one time, or spend more of it later. It's up to you.
Listen to what these guys are telling you. You obviously came here for advice. You're getting it. It's just not what you want to hear. You want someone to tell you that you can do it for $10 and it will run like a clock for the next 32 years. That's not gonna happen. There is a wealth of knowledge hear if you are willing to listen and accept it.
You can take my advice if you wish. This is what I do every day of my life. I've been doing it for longer than I care to remember and I think I'm pretty damn good at it. If you read this well and heed my advice, I will have saved you countless thousands of dollars for free.
I would be willing to help you in any way I can...just ask. However, you have to be willing to take the advice even if it isn't what you want to hear. Good luck.
Eddie

Best post EVER!

Daniel, there are a couple of ways to approach this. You can follow Eddie's advice to a "T" and find an experienced marine mechanic who has a lot of successful supercharged marine engines (fuel injected in particular) under his belt, pay the money and get him to do everything for you. The advantage here is that he will get it done faster, hopefully right the first time, and possibly provide you with some type of warranty if disaster strikes. The other way is to do what a lot of the guys on this board have done. Dig and research and learn what it takes to do it right the first time. Find out what parts you need, what needs to be done to the engine to make it live, how things need to be tuned, etc. The search function on this site (and other sites) is very powerful if you learn to use it. I know it would be great for someone to just spoon feed you everything that needs to be done from start to finish, but it doesn't work that way. You need to do some research yourself too. It will take longer this way, and there may be some trial and error, but you will have the satisfaction of learning how a high performance mill is put together.

Some of the other guys have touched on the safety factor in all of this. IMO, a 20 foot boat running at 75 mph is on the ragged edge of being safe as it is. When you start talking about speeds approaching 90 mph on the water, things can go wrong much faster than you may realize. When you hit one of those rogue rollers that you can hardly see at speeds like that, especially in a boat that size, it is hard to predict how the boat will handle it. Definitely invest in the best safety equipment you can get if you want to run those speeds. Get the best life vest you can afford, use your lanyard, maybe even consider a helmet when you are going to crank it up that high. I don't want to sound like an old fart preaching to you, but I have seen some bad things happen on the water.

Here's a laundry list for starters:

High performance head gaskets - Multi Layer Steel, most folks prefer the Cometics, although some have run the FelPro's with some success.

Inconnel or Ferrea Super Alloy exhaust valves. The word that I have heard is that the Ferrea's are a real nice piece, some say that they are better than the Inconnels. COnsider upgrading the intakes as well to a high quality stainless alloy. You will need a performance valve job with a good, wide seat for the exhaust valves to transfer heat. Some of the engine experts on the site can help with exact numbers.

Consider cleaning up the combustion chambers to eliminate hot spots that could preignite.

You may want to invest in a more aggressive cam to take advantage of the supercharger. In this case, go with a billet core, high quality (Morel) lifters, good pushrods and valvesprings (Isky), high quality full roller rockers, etc.

You will probably need a better exhaust system to take full advantage of the supercharger, although some folks have managed all right with stock exhaust on a supercharged engine.

As mentioned before, the fuel delivery system will need to be revamped. Bigger lines, tank pickup, water separator, injectors, etc.

The stock T-bolt ignition should be up to the task, but you will need a different timing curve. This may be handled by whomever does the ECU programming.

There, that's a start. Then you will find all the little things that will come up unexpectedly (ask me how I know :rolleyes: ). Things like couplers, water crossovers, pulley clearance, etc.

You are in for a real adventure. In the meantime, enjoy your boat while it is still stock, troublefree, and relatively fast! :D

Here's another thing to consider - maybe you should just pull your engine out and set it aside, and then start from scratch with an engine assembled specifically for the supercharger. That way you would have your old, reliable motor as a spare bullet in case you lunch your blower motor. I couldn't tell you all the guys who have found themselves at the beginning of a season with a busted motor who wish they had a spare to drop in to drive around the lake while it is being repaired.

Second best post ever!

Holy chit, what a bunch of wet blankets! Your motor already has low compression, good internals, and inconel exhaust valves. Go buy a procharger M1 kit with 4-5lbs max, get Mark Boos to program your ecm and go have fun. If it lasts the whole season do the top end and check the cylinders then. I've got 380 hours on my stock 350 mags with cast pistons and cranks and 5lbs boost. Obviously upgrading everything would be great but everyone's gotta start somewhere.

You need to consider that a boat engine is not at all closely compared to a car engine. Boat engines NEVER coast. Even if you never ran it wide open it sees wear and tear at a FAR faster pace than any car engine. When a boat is put in gear, it si ALWAYS underl load. This is why so many routinely do complete refreshes between 400-500 hours, give or take.
And I think you would be very hard pressed to find anyone on here that would agree that your stock B1 outdrive would be up to the task. It would have to be babied constantly. Not doing hole shots at all is only a small piece to your drive lasting... the prop leaving tghe water and re-entering is what will destroy it faster than you can say "sportmaster lower"

Again, not trying to be disouraging, just trying to provide you with all the information because it seems you definitly dont have all the right info to make an informed decision, but by all means, do what you think is best.

I'm pretty sure the Mag engines do not have the inconel exhaust valves. I called Mercury Racing myself to verify this, as I had a set of 502 Mag heads I wanted to run, and I wanted to see if they had the good valves. Merc told me that they only upgraded the valves, springs, etc on the blue motors. The black motors just run whatever GM puts in them. The fact that my valves said "Eaton" on the valvestem seems to verify this. I never could get any further on this, but I doubt if GM was equipping them with inconel valves unless Merc spec'ed them that way.

He may very well be able to just slap a ProCharger on his engine as it is and run it for a couple of years, but he stated that he wants to "do it right". It's all on how much you want to gamble. My bigger concern is what happens when you are running a 20-foot boat at 90 mph on the edge of chine walking and you hit a few of those rollers that sneak up on you. :eek:

I personally think the Bravo will hold up, at least for a while, behind a small lightweight boat. He just needs to keep the prop in the water. I would have it checked out very closely, and it might be good preventative maintenance to replace the u-joints.

hey
 

guys i really appreciate the advice gonna do some research and see what i can find.. as far the the rogue waves go lol it strictly is used on the lake no big waves at all .. lake is pretty much calm all the time .. but i really appreciate the advice sorry if it was like iwasn't listening you know what its like being young you just want to get it done lol ill do some research on what needs to be done.. also that might be a good idea taking the stock motor out and finding maybe a built motor? as far as hull speed etc would be nice to find someone that has pushed these things to see how it would handle in the 80's or 90s i know all about chine walk it aint fun at all ! thanks guys

Good point Budman, I am stuick on the heavy boat mindset with my cig and know I have to be pretty careful with it leaving the water, especially with XR's... I had to remind myslef this is a small, lightweight boat that wont be quite as hard on the drive as a bigger heavier one. :ernaehrung004:

Daniel, FYI there is a guy in the Swap Shop section selling a ProCharger setup for MPI motors for around $2K. You might want to check it out.

Wow, thats some good advice Eddie. Your right it seems like more and more people come here for advice. Ten or more people give good advice, then one guy gives the answer they want to hear and thats what they go with. Its very frustrating :angry-smiley-038:

Now, here is what I would do. Leave it stock and enjoy the boat untill you are ready to do it right. Maybe start with exhaust upgrade, that will not harm the engine and will be needed later. Most of us here have the speed bug and it is hard to get rid of. Most say its a terminal illness :lolhit: , my boat started at 55MPH and I am now at 74. I would like to run faster but that will open up a can of worms, I have everything matched and performing well. To upgrade will require some major mods. We know were you are coming from, just trying to give you good advice. I blew mine up a few times before getting mine dialed in, it gets expensive.