no_P22

Actually I did post this in the Sea Ray owner's area, but as it is more of a common kind of question, I copied the post over here.. Shame on me for flooding..



Hi

New here, this seemed like a reasonable place to look for info, and also ask a few questions. Have been reading for hours and hours, now it was time to jump aboard.

I live in northern Europe in Scandinavia, where we have a 4 month long boating season and pay almost 2 euros per liter of gasoline. That should equal to about 9.80 USD for a US gallon. Beat that.

In the future I'm looking into having a Sea Ray Pachanga 22 or 27, not decided yet. Maybe a similar boat of another make might be ok also, suggestions? Others that might be of interest could be a Sea Ray 260CC from the same era, but this is probably not considered a performance hull? Any experiences of this?

Here comes a lot of lack of knowledge, but:
what is the correct combination, when you want a go-fast v-bottom?
Is there a standard opinion on what the bottom v-angle should be, any minimum hull lenght etc? I understand that certain hulls can not be pushed beyond certain speeds, no matter what. I could live with a quite small boat doing 60-65-70 gps mph, remembering the fact what it costs to drag a heavy hull in the sea with these fuel prices. On the other hand, boating hours per year is around 20-25 and fun things usually cost money..

And this leads to the next one. As for now, I run a 1997 SeaRay 200 Sun Sport. (BTW, this model is not found in SR model archives, what is it??) Standard engine is a 260 with Alpha One. Got a crack in the block in the wintertime, so now it runs a dynoed 377 with higher compression, it's got about the same power and torque as mercruiser 6.2 has, 320 hp and peaks 413lbft. The boat should be very light, having not even a cuddy cabin, but a very low storage compartment under the deck, no portapottis (ie not carrying extra **** around), nothing. This combo gives me with light fuel load, 2 adults, 3 small kids a gps top speed of 52 mph, which I am not too satisfied with. WOT is 4900, prop is 21 standard mercruiser alu prop. What is wrong? Especially, thinking a 1980's P22 which must be heavier, and has less power, has a advertised top speed of 60mph if i remember correct.

What is the problem or truth here?

fireboatpilot

First of all, Welcome to OSO. yes your in the right place to find out information. The members here are very helpful and knowledgable.

IMO, regarding your situation I would say choosing a boat should depend on several factors such as what type of boating you want to do, cruising, fishing, water sports or racing/speed? Where will you be boating, lakes, rivers, bays or oceans, fresh or salt waters and what type normal sea conditions? Who will you be boating with, family, young kids, etc? and of course then theres your budget?

52 mph in a 20' boat with 5 people on board is pretty respectable. Put it this way, speed costs money, lots of it, so how fast do you want to go again? your right a Sea Ray is not really considered a fast hull but to gain 10-15 mph, purchase another boat, engine mods, and that crazy fuel costs where your at is going to be quite an investment. By the way, whats available where your at as far as parts and facilities? Remember the higher your top speed is the more you loose at the bottom end. What I mean is if your pulling your kids around on a tube or skis and need a good hole shot then that 65mph boat might not have the hole shot you need to do that anymore. and to prop it down to do it will kill the top end speed and put alot more strees on the drive etc. My boat is capable of 120mph but my slowest cruise speed is 40-50, see my point? I'm sure that others here will chime in with more suggestions and advice. Good luck with your choices what ever they might be but do the homework before you choose.

A.O. Razor

Welcome to OSO. Where in scandinavia do you boat? You say 4 month season, so I'm betting you are north of Oslo. I boat in Denmark.

A 20' boat with 377 hp, should run way more than 52 mph. As an exampel, a Baja 20 OL runs about 61-63 with a 260 hp motor.

Here is a bunch of questions you will need to answer for ppl to help you.

What is the condition of your boats bottom? I.E. bottom paint, blisters, rough, hook ect.
What was your performance with your old setup? Prop make/model/pitch. GPS speed @ ???? rpm's. Gear ratio in drive?
At what rpm's did you dyno the 377 hp?

Regarding your other question. Normally, boats consideret performance boats, have a dead rise of 24(ish) degrees. Boat size and efficiency can be a bit of a jungle, smaller is not always faster. A 29 Fountain is faster than a 27 ect. If you are looking for a boat that is "true" 26' the 29 Fountain could be an option. 1' for the beak and 2' for the swimplatform = 26'. A Baja 26 OL with a 496HO will run 63-65 mph on average. The 29 Fever will be 4-5 mph faster. What is your budget and what do you want to use the boat for? If you are looking into the older 26' boats, with no steps, notches ect. you'll need 500+ hp for an honest everyday 70 mph. 26 footers with 502MPI's, 496HO's ect. will normally be between 62-66 mph, depending on make/model/condition.

Good luck with your search.

machloosy

Simple mod to your current boat is going to be a stainless steel prop. No blade flex is a lot more efficient!

no_P22

Hi!

Thanks for your reply and concern!
Our waters here are rocky saltwaters. Very different from anything in the US. We have lots and lots and again, lots of islands outside the shoreline, so navigation skills are crucial. Take the wrong route, and you end up destroying your hull. BTW, take a look at google maps, find "Turku, Finland", zoom in and look around. Especially at the amount of islands. Compare to the Florida coast

Mostly, boating targets are moving from A to B 50% with family, 50% by myself or with friends. Boating hours/yr are really below 30, so going from 6 gallons/hr to the double or triple on cruising speed is not that terrible.

My major concern actually is, that is my boat I have now such a bad build that the hull keeps the speed back? If I remember correctly, 20-22' small powerboats have advertised top speeds of more than 60mph with 260hp smallblocks and alphaone drives. Searay P22, Carlson 21, Baja's, Sunrunner GTS etc. Is it just salesmen BS or real figures? If a 22' 260hp boat REALLY does 62mph, I am very unsatisfied having a 20' 320hp 52mph boat, as I'm quite sure you guys understand. If it is the hull keeping it back, I will sell it and buy something a little faster. Keeping the hull size at max 26' will be satisfactory costwise.

My standard engine got cracked by freezing, so being a gearhead it was just too tempting to stroke it, because i was forced to do the bottom end anyway. The goal was gettin' a little more while you're at it,without sacrificing any of the easy boating, so it has standard cam, exhaust etc. I still was expecting just a little more speed than what I've got now.

no_P22

Ah, first I thought I have written the engine is 377hp, but apparently I didn't.

It is 377 cu in, being a new standard bore block with a 400 crank. HP is 320.
The problem remains, too little speed for the setup, if compared to advertised top speeds on similar products.

Bottom is fine, not even any major scratches. I do not remember previous gps top speed, but as drive ratio and prop are the same as before, only increased wot rpm would make more speed, right?

Don't have the dyno sheets at hand now, but since manifolds and cam are standard, also the standard behaviour is there. It has more than 370 lb ft from 2500rpm up all the way, power curve starts heading downwards somewhere near 5000rpm. It was not built to an all-out hi-perf engine, just a mild mod cruise engine, keeping in mind what the alpha one can take.

Maybe a prop test would be the next step, could be that the engine could handle a lot more prop? Is it possible, that now when the engine revs up to the point where power starts going down, it could anyway spin a faster prop resulting a higher top speed at a lower rpm? If there is enough torque on lower wot than what i have now?

Sorry if this got messy, my english is not the very best one..

A.O. Razor

I dug up a few test numbers from the web. All numbers are gps numbers, not running on fumes and the sun in the ass ect.

Baja 202 Islander 260 hp. 4800 rpm @ 56.8 mph
Baja 20 OL 260 hp. 5000 rpm @ 62.4 mph
Caravelle 207 LS Bow Rider 220 hp. 4500 rpm @ 48.6 mph
Glastron GT 205 BR 225 hp. 5000 rpm @ 48.9 mph
Stingray 205 CX 225 hp. 5000 rpm @ 56.8 mph
Stingray 205 LR 270 hp. 5020 rpm @ 60.9

What I'm trying to show with these numbers are, that I think you should be faster. Why the boat isn't, I'm not sure of. Playing with props are deff. something to try. The alu props suck big time. If you can get your hands on a LaserII and Vensura in 21"/23" to try, do that. Also. Look at the sticker on the left side of your drive. The gear ratio should be there.
There are alot of 20-22 foot boats out there that'll run 60+ with 320 hp, and some with less. You could look for a Baja 20 OL. Take a look at this test as well, fun reading. http://www.trailerboats.com/output.cfm?id=1069057
The Stingray 220SX runs about 62-64 with 320 hp too.

Something like a Baja 26OL, 275 Performer and 278 Performer will cruise about 8-9 GPH with a 496HO, and about 32-34 GPH @ wot so it's not that bad compared to your current 6 GPH cruise.