No oil pressure in Rebuild
 

rebuilt 5.7 long block with new oil pump i just finished getting the motor in the boat trying to prime the motor with the drill and i can't get any pressure on gauge to build....strange thing is if i take the oil filter off( remote oil filter atop riser) and turn the pump oil will flow slowly...its very weak flow tho...i can stop it with my finger easily and i really have to be high speed on the drill...what are some reason for this...could their be a loss of pressure somewhere or is this just a bad pump?

[QUOTE=formula18;3504365]rebuilt 5.7 long block with new oil pump i just finished getting the motor in the boat trying to prime the motor with the drill and i can't get any pressure on gauge to build....strange thing is if i take the oil filter off( remote oil filter atop riser) and turn the pump oil will flow slowly...its very weak flow tho...i can stop it with my finger easily and i really have to be high speed on the drill...what are some reason for this...could their be a loss of pressure somewhere or is this just a bad pump? where should i start

make sure you did not cross the oil lines 1st thing !! did that once and 0 pressure !

i never took them apart....i left them on the remote oil filter...i believe it only fits on one way? at least i think lol anything else?

If you installed a new oil pump you have to prime the oil pump itself with the oil your going to use before installing it.

Also your drill has to have enough rpms to spin the oil pump shaft also you need the proper oil pump priming tool that is the GM one, it will have a collar adaptor - just google GM oil priming tool to see. Good luck.

I had the same problem with my 502 not sure if you motor has them but the machine shop that did my work forgot to put the plugs back in the lifter gally after cleaning the block all the oil was pumping out into the lifter gally . hope this helps

i have the gm tool with the collar...

is your drill turning the right direction?

oil pressure
 

Sounds like somebody might of left out the lifter gallery plugs.It's the three in back of the cam gear. My 2 cents JOHN SR

+1

even if you didnt take them off the remote filter you might have swapped them on the block - swap them around and see.

Why are there good reliable shops and individuals in the marine engine business who get paid to rebuild engines correctly and pay close attention to the details.??

Heck I don't know.

I am sorry, but i get so tired like many here on OSO of the I can do it myself cries for help and disaster stories.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

It really does sound like you dont have the correct tool. Does it look like the one in this link ?

http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp+Cams/249/4921/10002/-1

By the way,

Having the oil filter lines plumbed wrong will not keep the oil pump from building pressure. It might keep the oil from getting filtered, but the pump will still build pressure in the engine.

Not sure what type of drill you havem but it should really put a load on it. Most 3/8 drills cant handle it and will burn up pretty quickly.

Did you build the engine or someone else ?

Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md

Is it an electric sender?

thats the tool i have...and its a mechanical...im just going to have to yank the engine back out and check everything out...its stupid on my part of should of primed it outside of the boat instead of assuming...what should i check for besides the obvious

and raylar...some people cannot afford to spend alot of money to have other people do things for them...if i didn't do it myself i couldn't afford boating...

im going to pull the motor but i need you guys to be more specific with these plugs and where they are so i can check...would it cause oil to leak out of the block or stay internal? sorry im a handy guy learning the hard way

There's lifter galley plugs in the front which would be behind the timing cover. They would leak internally. There are also plugs on the back of the block. They would be leaking externally.
Is the drill laboring when you spin the pump? You should deffinately be able to tell there's a heavy load on it.
If I'm not mistaken you should be able to prime the pump with it installed. The pump picks up the oil and goes directly to the filter first. There fore you should be able to disconnect the oil incoming line at the remote filter. Then pour oil in the line. It should run in there backwards and fill the pump. You could even spin the pump in reverse and see if it sucks it in.

BillK- One time I had a 1/2" drill smokin and the lights dimming spinnin a HV pump in a BB.

fixx
 

on a small block their is also a plug if i remember correctly either in one of the main thrust bearing cap area or in one of the bolt holes..if this plug is not installed the oil pump wont pump the oil through the block, just want to clairfy if you hand primed the oil pump,,,put oil in the pump and turned it by hand before installing it..if you did not then this is probably the problem,,you will also need to weld on the pick up tube so it does not fall off..

Bill, by the way yes crossing the oil lines did stop my 454 earlier this year from having any oil pressure !!! now I was using a aftermarket filter adapter and used a ford filter....but 0 oil pressure....took a hour to figure out why....some filters must have a ck valves.....

No need to prime the pump with oil before you install it... Not ever. Sounds like you're missing some plugs, most likely behind the timing cover.

I agree here. You might also have the issue of the main bearings in the wrong location. The main bearing with the hole goes in the block. If you got this main in the cap, you will not have any oil pressure. I also agree with you that not everyone has a money tree in their back yard like Raylar has and they have to do things themselves. Raylar...you as a professional motor builder should offer help instead of berating him for trying to fix his issue. Respectability has gone down here.

Since Melling has made, seen & installed more oil pumps than anyone I think I would follow their advice.

Go to their website and they have video about priming your oil pump by hand and say this must be done on a new pumps before installing them.

The video even shows you how to do this. I would follow what they recommend about oil pumps.

What they do in the video is exactly what the pump is doing in the pan when you prime it with a drill after it's installed in the engine... My point was that putting oil in the pump before installation is not a necessity to make the pump prime itself. I'm sure Melling makes the recommendation to do so to insure that the relief is not stuck, or that the pump actually has two gears in it, etc, or whatever, before it's installed in the engine. That being said, the original poster's issue is not being caused by the fact that he didn't submerge his pump and pickup in a dishpan full of oil and spin it by hand.

Exactly...but something else no one has addressed on the priming before you install it issue is...Just how does Melling or anyone else propose to keep the oil in the pump after you prime it? How do you keep it from running out?

Advice coming from a good place!
 

Formula18, I am not trying to bash on your efforts to save money while trying to stay in boating, however there are litterly hundreds of posts here on OSO every two months or so of boaters who are trying to rebuild and build up their engines in their boats without the training and proper knowledge of all the systems, specifications, and exact parts, machining, assembly and configurations for what they are trying to do with their engine. Like yourself , they many times think they are saving a lot of money by buying their parts out of catalogues and internet sites, then going to a local machine shop for low cost usually inadequate block and head work, then trying to prep and reassemble the engine themselves without all the proper tools to check and properly establish correct clearances, and correctly assemble the whole assembly. Many times they do not know the differences between year and version types of the engine or the special attention that must be paid to the little details that a reliable trained vetran of marine engines in a good shop will know and practice because of his expierence and knowledge.
In this effort to save money and sometimes play with their engines as a nightime and weekend garage hobby, these individuals will end up with an all new broken, damaged or complete loss of core engine and then have to spend a lot more money, time and frustration trying to either get someone else to do the job or do it themselves again with sometimes same or still poor results.
What I am saying here is many boaters need to be careful not to take on engine projects themselves unless they have the knowledge, expierence, tools and ability to do a proper marine endurance engine build! The supposed savings they are trying to achieve is usually respent trying to get it right and they think they are going to be able to get a $3-$5K job for $1500. They will spend the $1500 but usually as posts like yours and many others here on OSO show they never got there!, or when they finally did they spent the $3-4K overall with a lot more wasted boating time and angst!
My final word to the wise boater, unless you are a good knowledgeable marine engine builder with all the resources you need and will use, do not attempt the project from the start. Use forums and recommendations to find the good engine rebuilders out there who can and will get it right for you the first time at a reasonable cost. If you can't really afford the costs associated with especially performance boating I would recommend you consider finding another hobby or recreation you can afford and enjoy!

I know I am going to receive a lot of criticism here even on OSO for my frank opinion and comments but it needs to be said and hopefully it will benefit more boaters than it will piss off!

Best of Luck, hope everything works out OK for you and others!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Hmmmmmmmmm...seems that Raylar addressed my post when I said to help the guy instead of berating him. Also seems that that post has gone poof and disappeared...imagine that.

They (Melling) want you to make sure it will pump oil. Of course the oil is going to drain out plus oil will a still leave an barrier coat internally. Just like you want a an oil film internally on every other part. This is a self prime before the full prime also.

So your going to say its better to leave an oil pump completely dry before putting into use and lube the rest of the internals while building. Then why bother to lube anything your going to pre lube a motor anyways to take this a step further. Call Melling ask them all about it, this is what they have preatched and will tell you the same over the phone.

Just passing on what Melling has told me for many years. Damn dont kill the messenger here. I guess Melling knows nothing about oil pumps. Keep building your way and I will follow Melling advise for #1 any warranty issues and failures that could be the outcome. If you do this for a living it is always wise to follow what the Manu's put into words. good luck.

Dont mean to upset you dude, but I havent ever seen a Melling out of the box dry either. They always put oil in it as evidenced by most of it leaking out in the plastic bag/wrap it is in. I have just never primed an oil pump out of the box. I make sure that there is or has been oil in it and go on from there...never had any issues. But if Melling decides to ship them out dry...then I think you have a valid point.

Just put one in last night right out of their Melling box. Makes for 29 of them this year alone. The box and the oil pump that was shipped to me were dry as hell. Also be nice my wife knows your wife DUDE.

WIf you don't want to help the guy , then just stay out of this thread. So far you haven't offered anything at all to this thread. If his motor blows up tomorrow why do you care. Your not out any money. As stated earlier some people can't afford someone else to do their work. Some people also like to learn with help from others unlike yourself. You act like its guaranteed he will never have a problem if he were to have his work done by somebody else.

Check your remote oil lines before pulling the motor. It makes a difference in how you attach the adapter that bolts on to the bottom of the motor. You can have it 180 degrees out from what is expected in the way of flow at the remote adapter.

As a test, take the filter off again and try priming it. If you get oil flowing to the center of the remote adapter, then you are backward. Its supposed to come from the motor via the side port in the adapter, not the center port. If its coming to the filter via the center hole, then the check valve in the oil filter will stop the flow.


Good luck!
Bob

I have never got one dry...so dont know what to tell you on that. So...yours knows mine...thats nice.

Try to follow this chart to trace your oil lines to make sure that they are in the correct place...

http://teaguecustommarine.com/index.php/tech

Click on the oil plumbing system.

Umm... no, I'm saying that the oil pump is going to be used to prime the whole engine, once it's installed, the engine is filled with oil, and a priming tool is used. During that process, the oil pump will be filled with oil, and it's parts coated with oil. Explain to me how putting the pump, which is shipped dry, into a dishpan full of oil and spinning it to fill it, is any different than installing it in the engine (dry) and spinning it in an oil pan full of oil? Get it??:rolleyes:

My point was, and still is, that the original poster's oil pressure issue is not being caused by his lack of putting any type of lubricant in the pump upon installation. Remember, we're trying to help him with his issue here, so it's important to keep the misleading info to a minimum.

+1 Ditto that!

There is another plug that is pressed in . It is in the rear main oil galley vertically. This plug is rarely removed when cleaning but will cause fits to try and find if removed.

Just tossing this into the mix (and I'm far from an expert) but... I've reprimed a dry pump using a homemade pre-oiler that I pressured with a compressor. It worked like a charm. That may help with the priming if spinning it isn't doing the trick. I realize there are probably larger problems as others have pointed out, but forcing oil through the system with a pre-oiler might also help. Cheap and easy to build too.

I'll always be happy to try to help anybody who asks.
For every guy who tries to do it themselves and messes it up, there are just as many so-called "marine engine builders" out there taking people's money and doing hack-jobs that blow up as well.

Forums such as this help people find reputable builders (like Raylar and many others) and also to find out which ones NOT to use. Sometimes it takes a hard lesson learned, but eventually most guys either run out of money, find a good mechanic/builder, learn to do it themselves, or get out of boating. That's part of the charm of owning a boat..

Take a guy new to boating who needs motor work. How does he know whether Joe-Bob's race motors will do a great job or whether he will build a bomb with a short fuse?

Since there were more than two pieces in an assembly, there have been people putting them together wrong, and it will always be that way.

We can sit on the sidelines and hammer them for not choosing "builder x" or we can try to hear their descriptions and try to help.

MC

I think Raylar should help a fellow boater out and send him a free motor, so the guy can stay in the boating hobby. Help a brother out.
This is a technical forum right, not the advertising pages.

We might also want to stop the whinning about the friggin oil pump...prime it...dont prime it...did it come in the box with oil in it or did it show up dry. Raylar and other "pro" builders arent going to say much because there isnt any $$$ in it for them and they have hugh overheads to deal with. The smaller guys need help...ask for it and in alot of cases, they catch Hell because they didnt do this or that or take it to motor builder A or motor builder B. Someone who is willing to take on a project by themselves...I will always go out of my way to help the person. Everybody has to or had to learn how to mess with a motor regardless of how many times they screwed it up. If they are willing to keep at it, then I am willing to offer any and all the help I can. I only know of a few builders that "think" they could work on top fuel boats when they were 10 years old...some of them hang out on OSO. I have seen others offer poor advice knowing that if they do certain things on a old 7.4 motor, it is going to die.