Destroyed Raylar Valves - Faired Well
01-11-2012, 02:12 PM
#22
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Just did a little research on ferritic nitrocarburizing and it looks like a great idea for gears as well. Tufftride is a form of this that is more familiar. I would definitely like to find someone that does this. Not only do the parts wear better, they are more corrosion resistant than hard chrome.
01-11-2012, 02:37 PM
#23
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Just did a little research on ferritic nitrocarburizing and it looks like a great idea for gears as well. Tufftride is a form of this that is more familiar. I would definitely like to find someone that does this. Not only do the parts wear better, they are more corrosion resistant than hard chrome.
The drive gear and two lower unit gears could be done. However, the brass on the two driven gears would contaminate the bath therefore, they won't treat them. They are two out of the three most critical parts..
Has anyone been able to get the brass off and then back on?
01-12-2012, 06:35 AM
#24
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I don't understand. The grease in the bottom of the oil quart didn't have anything to do with the failure.
We beat the XR topic to death last time. It's common knowledge at this point regarding the newer XR's. Somone else mentioned the XR problems in the valve thread and tied them together.
Maybe I misunderstood - thanx
We beat the XR topic to death last time. It's common knowledge at this point regarding the newer XR's. Somone else mentioned the XR problems in the valve thread and tied them together.
Maybe I misunderstood - thanx
Wouldn't you want to find out what the stuff is and why it happened?
I would be curious if happened to me.
Maybe it was a wrong additive, base stock interaction with an additive and it cause a gelling issue. I know if I found this "grease" in a bottle of gear oil I was using, I would like some answers and just maybe change brands.
Ken
01-12-2012, 09:35 AM
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SD, I am not saying the the gear oil is at fault, it could be contributory. You have to admitt, finding "grease" in the bottle isn't normal.
Wouldn't you want to find out what the stuff is and why it happened?
I would be curious if happened to me.
Maybe it was a wrong additive, base stock interaction with an additive and it cause a gelling issue. I know if I found this "grease" in a bottle of gear oil I was using, I would like some answers and just maybe change brands.
Ken
Wouldn't you want to find out what the stuff is and why it happened?
I would be curious if happened to me.
Maybe it was a wrong additive, base stock interaction with an additive and it cause a gelling issue. I know if I found this "grease" in a bottle of gear oil I was using, I would like some answers and just maybe change brands.
Ken
As long as you use the whole quart at fill time or if you only have the residual in a bottle under the seat I guess it doesn't matter.
It only does this if you open and then fail to use it. Once in the gearcase after opening, it's safe to say you got everything you were supposed to.
I wondered if it could be the emulsifying additive that is not present in non-marine gear oil..
01-12-2012, 09:55 AM
#26
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Why doesn't a concerned user shoot off an email to Amsoil technical depatment and ask an expert how they can shed some light on this mystery? Sounds like a good idea to me.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
01-12-2012, 10:11 AM
#27
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Yes, I agree and that's why I made the post; hoping that someone else has seen this before.
As long as you use the whole quart at fill time or if you only have the residual in a bottle under the seat I guess it doesn't matter.
It only does this if you open and then fail to use it. Once in the gearcase after opening, it's safe to say you got everything you were supposed to.
I wondered if it could be the emulsifying additive that is not present in non-marine gear oil..
As long as you use the whole quart at fill time or if you only have the residual in a bottle under the seat I guess it doesn't matter.
It only does this if you open and then fail to use it. Once in the gearcase after opening, it's safe to say you got everything you were supposed to.
I wondered if it could be the emulsifying additive that is not present in non-marine gear oil..
12-11-2012, 04:43 PM
#28
Guess I should chime in here since these are our valves.
First the nitride process we use on our valves is not a surface chemical nitiride like one would see from various surface finishes. It is what is called in the industry as a QPQ nitride treatment. this is a process where the item is heated to about 950 degrees or so then dipped in a hot ferritic bath and then brought out, temperature controlled slow cooled and then polished. It is then retreated again in nearly the same process so its called "Quench, Polish, Quench" or QPQ.
This process is used on our one piece forged EV-8 stainless alloy valves and whn finished the valves metalurgical properties are actually altered and the surface hardness is created about .003" to .005" into the surface. BMW. Honda, Mercedes, ETC. have been using this valve construction and treatment for many years now with awesome results.
At the same time the overall ductability (flexibility) of the valve is increased to a point where the valves can sustain damage like this and not snap or break off at the stems. We can actually take one of our valves treated with this process and bend the valve head a 90 degrees to the stem and not have the valve head break off. Try that with some other stainless valves!
The secondary benefit is that the lubricity of the treated surface on the valve stem is so good that we don't have to chrome the valve stems and the stem wear and wear on the valve guides is almost non-existant after hundreds of hours of high performance engine use. The stems just polish up and get so nice in the guide its scarey!...
Considering we are currently at cylinder head serial number
794 which equates to over 6300 valves and I have seen less than 5 or 6 valves in this condition I would say our methods of cylinder head construction, valve design and construction are pretty good and speak well of our QPQ nitirding process and the quality of our one piece forged valves...
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
First the nitride process we use on our valves is not a surface chemical nitiride like one would see from various surface finishes. It is what is called in the industry as a QPQ nitride treatment. this is a process where the item is heated to about 950 degrees or so then dipped in a hot ferritic bath and then brought out, temperature controlled slow cooled and then polished. It is then retreated again in nearly the same process so its called "Quench, Polish, Quench" or QPQ.
This process is used on our one piece forged EV-8 stainless alloy valves and whn finished the valves metalurgical properties are actually altered and the surface hardness is created about .003" to .005" into the surface. BMW. Honda, Mercedes, ETC. have been using this valve construction and treatment for many years now with awesome results.
At the same time the overall ductability (flexibility) of the valve is increased to a point where the valves can sustain damage like this and not snap or break off at the stems. We can actually take one of our valves treated with this process and bend the valve head a 90 degrees to the stem and not have the valve head break off. Try that with some other stainless valves!
The secondary benefit is that the lubricity of the treated surface on the valve stem is so good that we don't have to chrome the valve stems and the stem wear and wear on the valve guides is almost non-existant after hundreds of hours of high performance engine use. The stems just polish up and get so nice in the guide its scarey!...
Considering we are currently at cylinder head serial number
794 which equates to over 6300 valves and I have seen less than 5 or 6 valves in this condition I would say our methods of cylinder head construction, valve design and construction are pretty good and speak well of our QPQ nitirding process and the quality of our one piece forged valves...
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
Thanks!
