TRS vs BRAVO
 

I have a 79' Scarab with TRS drives thinking maybe going to BRAVO drives. What are the PROs and CONs of the switch??

Pros:

Better hydrodynamics
no transmission to worry about
a little more power handling ability
less weight
more parts availability


Cons:

Cost
engines need moved or long drive shafts added to bravos

All kinds on info on this topic in threads.... Here's a search of TRS and Bravo in the titles:

Search Results

Konrads are on sale

Bravos are not considered as strong as TRS thats what most people agree on. I personally dont see any point in changing to a bravo its a sideways trade that costs a lot and is a lot of work.

Of course there are reasons people like the bravo's... they are easier to work on if you ask me because if you blow a tranny with TRS the motor has to come out. Bravos will gain you some speed from what i hear and also there will be no power lost because of the transmission not being 100% efficient.

Changing to bravo would be a good idea if you are updating your whole boat.. example if you put a new transom in then you should go ahead and do it because the TRS is outdated and while its not hard to get parts now in 10 years it probably will be.

Just curious... You didn't happen to buy your boat up by Chicago did you?

I agree 100%

Most everyone I have talked to on the subject says TRS are not good over 400hp...??? Is this not correct?

Just wondering.

I would not say that Bravo's are stronger. Especially on an older hull that is heavy. I don't think you would see considerable changes in speed. You are also talking about a big project. Transom, engine movement. Not to mention how are the ride characteristics going to change in the boat. That boat was designed to have the weight and balance of the transmissions in the back. You can still pick up spare TRS's pretty cheep and unless you have 600+ HP they are pretty much bullet proof. Plus they shift so much nicer then bravo's. I am sure others will chime in, but a 1000 threads on this same topic exist. Good luck

Not true. I ran 675HP for 100 hours on TRS. Just changed the oil and that was on a heavy cigarette mistress. I then converted the boat to Konrads.

Hmmm....I did not realize. I actually DIDN'T buy a really, really nice fountiain 10 meter a few years back just because of the TRS set up.

The broker on the boat told me that the power in it (about 500 a side) was to much for those drives.

The TRS drive is stronger than the B1's, but yes, they also have their limit, they are heavy, take hp to spin ect. 500+hp is pushing it with a TRS, but a sure time bomb with a Bravo, even if they come with the 525EFI and 600SCI. Now a days it gets worse with the Bravo gears being junk. Bravo drives suck, in any shape or form.

Got 565hp a side in mine hooked up to TRS's and no problems. Love the way the tranny's shifts so smooth!! If I ever have to switch it will be to a Konrad!!

I have had 600HP per side for the last 3 years in front of my TRS with no problems. I had a friend with 700HP+ on a 86 Top Gun and would go through 1 sometimes 2 drive a year.

Only time I had a problem with my TRS is when I blew an upper cause I only put 1.5qts of oil during my first drive oil change. I know it takes 3qts now.

No I bought it here Lake of the Ozarks

Ok cool. There was a '79 300 with 454/TRS near Chicago with porno red interior for sale for a long time that had been full of water.

I would not waste the time to change from a trs to a bravo. It would require a ton of work, for a drive not as strong. My friend ran 700hp 540s in a 79 scarab 300 with trs. 90mph boat and no drive problems. He also ran it like he stole it and in rough water.

It sounds like your talking to a lot of guys who are giving you bad info about trs drives. As for trannies going bad, and having to pull the engine, etc...true. But what about blowing a bravo coupler?? Having a merc trans or velvet drive rebuilt isn't much more than a coupler job. Plus the trannies shift soo much smoother.

The limiting factor might be the Merc trans on some setups. I know the stock Merc trans will take less HP than the TRS. The BW velvets can take more power. When I had my BW's upgraded I had the 7 Kevlar plates installed and now should be good to 750HP.

True, I had my BW 71C's built to Huber 925 specs when I owned the boat. It wasn't that much to upgrade the trannies.

I got friends that ran up to 700hp with trs drives, b1 is450hp drive, but I put 585hp/600/650 hp on a single b1 on my 24ol for 12 years or so.if you have trs and hp above 600hp going with a konrad is the way to go. there rated at 800hp, my motor is more than that on the saber.konrad is shorter than a trs better bulit so its faster.

Wait until it blows up and then switch to bravo..

No need to re-rig to a lesser drive, Konrad's 540PRS is a direct bolt-on unit designed to replace the TRS. It's 1.7" shorter from input shaft to prop shaft. This increase in propshaft height typically results in gains of 3-5 mph when compared to the TRS. 7 qts gear lube capacity, rated to handle up to 800hp.

Bravo drives belong on a house boat... Listen to Biggus you can't go wrong

Thanks Steve:ernaehrung004: -See you in Miami!

With your motors sitting 2 foot forward, 3 inches higher, 200 more weight, more hydrodynamic drag, and needing an extra 100 ponies. Yea I would say even if a TRS could somehow hold 150 more hp than a bravo it would need more than that to equal to performance.

No need to exaggerate. TRS applications are about 10" further forward compared to Bravo. X-dimention is about the same, TRS were installed deep. TRS is heavier by about 120 lbs. Trans are 1:1, other than a small pump and viscous drag, there's not much loss. BAM calculates a 72C at about 12-15 hp.

Yes, there's speed to be gained, Bravo to TRS but most gain is from the ingrease in propshaft height with the Bravo being about 2.5" shorter than a TRS.

Swapping from TRS to Bravo is a huge undertaking with the end result, a weaker drive.

Trs, transmission, whatever parts are way more than 120 lb heavier. TRS is 3 inches longer. Hydrodynamics have to be worth a bunch.

i liked your 540's so much i had my TRS's painted to match. Hopefully one of these years i can have the real deal

http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/e...magejpeg_3.jpg

Nice job! :ernaehrung004:

X2 :)

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i4...b/80f28b91.jpg

The trs is 2.5 iches longer like biggus said..But you do shed alot of weight I would say about 275/300 per side. The trans alone is about 125/150. I have done the conversion a bunch of times and every time a big difference in performance..two of them were mine. One was a 27 excalibur with the same motor and the x was 19.5 with the trs when i converted it to bravo I set it at 19 and i gained a best of 7 MPH. Boat ran a best of 80 with the trs and that was only once, then when a did a bravo 87 MPH and that was a bunch of times... My 10 meter I gained 6 mph and the boat handles way better. If you can do it yourself I would do it. A bravo boat will sell alot easier than a trs.. Just my 2 cents

Heres the thing. As much as I LOVE the older boats, and have owned several vintage offshore boats, at some point you have to think of it from a financial standpoint. A showroom cherry 1979 30FT scarab is worth what in todays market? 15-20K? I really don't think resale from adding bravo's is gonna make or break the deal on that boat.

Personally, I would enjoy the boat and run it as is. If your going for big power, and wanna run hard, I'd skip the bravo's and go straight to the Konrads. A lot less work, and a superior drive compared to a bravo. Everything else stays the same. A standard Konrad will get your props up higher than they are now. And I believe they also offer a even shorter lower if needed. Do that and add some 600-650HP engines and run the snot out of it!!

Rocket, whats approx HP you are running through your Konrads? What size props are you running also? Thanks, plan to have a similar setup.

Exactly what I was thinking. Before investing 12K+ in a 33 year old boat to pick up 5-6 mph I think I would just look for a different boat.

I agree... You're basically married to the thing after you do the conversion. I would only do it if you plan on running the boat for at least 5-6 years after the conversion.

Unless you're in love with the thing I'd sell it for $10-12k and buy something in the late 80's early 90's with Bravos for $16-25k.

I sold the mistress with the Konrads. It had 675 HP Naturally Aspirated. I was running 26 Bravo I 4 blades. I picked up about 3-4 miles an hour when I switched from Trs to Konrads. The boat ran a consistant 76-77. It touched 80 on a few passes. This was GPS Speeds

The Gun I have now, has 3A's. Different animal, I had chief power originally, but now I have added a few more Cobra ponies for the spring!

How can you tell if it's a Merc trans? Are the BW velvets an after market trans?

More info, more info.:party-smiley-004:

Thanks everyone for their input. This boat is just a stepping stone to get a bigger boat. I'm just doing some updating to the boat, putting thru hull/captains call on the boat. changing color (this ain't the 70's anymore)lol

Merc Trans were only around in the 70's but so were the B-W's. After that it was all B-W's for the TRS. On the Merc Trans the bell housing and trans is all one piece aluminum. They have a silver ID tag on top center. On a B-W the trans and bellhousing are seperate. Their 8" longer than a Merc Trans and ID tag is on the top port side and uaually red or green.