time to speak my mind..........a pressure test will tell you two things yes??... 1= headers are sealed with no cracks... 2= headers are not sealed and you have cracks..........so lets say they test good and the next time you run the boat one of the inner tubes cracks and dumps water into a cylinder. how would you feel then? sealed today, cracked tomorrow! are you really going to leak test everyday?.......change em and be done

Just an update..... I ordered the Hardin hurricanes and the first set didn't go so well. One of the headers was used! It had lots of carbon in the tubes and gasket material on the flange. It seemed to have several hours on it. The seconded header had never been ran but it was not in good condition. It was all nicked up and had several imperfections. Also no instructions, gaskets or hardware was included. Had to reschedule our six day boating vacation! Not pleased! Hmm? Is this a coincidence or just what I get for looking into who actually makes the headers?:) Hardin took full responsibility for the mistake and my "new" set will arrive this week. I hope I am not disappointed again. I didn't ask for anything for my troubles because mistakes do happen. However I can not believe they did not offer to overnight the replacements once they received the first set back.

I wonder sometimes if some of these companies think were just stupid hicks that won't even notice them trying to pass off their garbage . Something very similar happened to me a while back . Do mistakes happen , yes , but is it just the dumbazz packing your goods or is someone trying to insult our intelligence . Either way it really pizzes me off . I certainly hope you paid $0.00 for all the shipping . Thank you for the heads up . the deep

Well we definitely are taking full responsibility . If there's one think were not above it is human mistakes. And as our company grows we keep increasing personnel. Our newest staff member pulled a wrong box and to our dismay it did end up to you. We don't sell used headers and a blind man could have seen this header was used there would be no way to sell or pass such an object off it is sincerely just a mistake we are very apologetic for our mistake and inconvenience .

How do you pressure test while still in the boat?
thanks,
Dean

The deep, Hardin did cover all shipping costs. I am not giving you or anyone else a "heads up" or attempting to sway anyone away from Hardin. This stuff happens and they made it right. To be honest I'm glad we still live in a world with natural human error not ran completely by robots.

Ok rat , have it your way .....

Your company is to be commended for this . Admitting a mistake and apologizing publicly is a tough thing to do but put you right at the top in my book . Nuff said....

stock
 

Pressure testing while in the boat. Disconnect all the rubber hoses connected to header. Plug and seal ports. Attach guage to 1 port. Pump to 10 psi.....RISK..... If you have a leak there is a chance that you will force water out of the crack or pinholed header into a open valve and into a cylinder.

Hat's off to Hardin.

FIRST CLASS ACT, in my book:thankyouthankyou:

tic toc.................... that's all for now....... tomorrow may be different

So with an '08 Engine with 40hours on it should you just bite the bullet and change them out now? It is a 29 Fever with a 525EFI.

Yes absolutely but as of right now I personally can not recommend a replacement. It depends on how this goes....

I wouldn't. My '07 525 hasn't had any header issues.

Yet.....but if/when they fail and you shell your motor, how will you feel then about a 5k insurance policy?

Diffinately run in OPEN exhaust mode though all the time correct?

Q & Q is only for idle with a 525. Mercury shop manual says up to 2,500 rpm.

"Yet.....but if/when they fail and you shell your motor, how will you feel then about a 5k insurance policy?"

I'm not convinced that all 525 CMIs are destined to fail. Maybe I have to learn the hard way but the CMIs are staying put.http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/x...s096Medium.jpg

either you have not read of the hundreds of cracked inner and outer tubes or you have deep pockets. regardless it's your boat and your decision. have fun out there!

I'm just not convinced that any of the long tube headers out there are better. If you don't use a long tube header with this engine you will lose power. My pockets aren't especially deep right now but I'm going to take my chances with the CMIs. I have read all of the reports but there are an awful lot of 525s out there. The problem also seems to be more prevalent on big twins with long, unsupported tails. Now I just hope I didn't jinx myself :eek: .

See post #44 on page five of this thread. I USED to think the same way you do about my old headers.... "It CAN'T happen to me, my boat is FRESH WATER use only, it has LOW HOURS and is NON-STAGGERED!" :poopoo:

Also, there are a lot more of these header failures going on out there then we are being made aware of here on OSO. Last Summer when I HAD to replace mine, Hardin Marine had their replacement headers on back-order for at least a month. When I talked to a Hardin Marine rep at the Miami Boat Show in February, he said that they were STILL having a hard time keeping up with demand... What does that tell you?!

I'm not trying to scare anyone, but unfortunately, what SHOULDN'T be considered "routine" maintenance (IMO) now IS for anyone with these POS Mercury Racing/CMI Headers.

For further information as to what happens when these POS Headers fail, see post #31 on page four of this thread... as bad as I felt about MY situation, Mykalvballer's was FAR worse!

Then the only question becomes: How lucky do you feel??? :daz:

well said perfect storm! even the wealthiest performance boater wouldn't throw that kind of cash away

SippyRat, I'm looking forward to seeing your new headers installed. I'm not denying the problems but what if there was a thread where people who have not had any header problems with a 525 could post up. I supposedly have the newer style headers with the exposed collar. I put on silicone hose so there won't be much stress from vibration and engine movement and I guess I'll hope for the best.

well i received my 2nd set and yes they are new and so far appear to be in great shape. only missing the tailpipe gaskets and bolts this time around. hardin apologized once again and is overnighting the parts to me. looks like they have some work to do if they want to prevent these types of experiences in the future. THE CEO NEEDS TO CRACK THE WHIP or eliminate the bad apples from ALL parties involved!!!! too many deals like mine can bring a company down in a heartbeat. hopefully with any luck i will have everything i need to make the swap this weekend............

Hardin Hurricane Lites Installed
 

I installed my Hardin Hurricane Lite Headers today. The install went pretty smooth once Scott from Hardin got me everything i needed. Thanks again Scott and everyone at Hardin for the way you handled this somewhat stressful transaction. I do however have one problem. My engine has the round power steering reservoir which will need to be relocated. The header is could not be installed until I removed the reservoir and mount bracket. I am at a loss at what to do here. Scott I know you said this wouldn't be the case but it is. Do you have a different bracket or a solution for me? Has anyone else had to relocate the reservoir??

you can see in this pic i just have it propped up with the mount bracket:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...7/6a8414d2.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...7/17c68c04.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...7/b1205e21.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...7/0f3382ed.jpg

this one is more of a concern than a problem. the inlet hose is tight to the header. should i try to tie it back away from it?
you can also see the stud to the left. this is where the reservoir bracket bolts up and the "fork" end of the bracket rests on the inlet hose.
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...7/d205ea93.jpg

you can see in this pic if i push it towards the back of the oil filter i have about 3/16" clearance. i would have to zip tie it to the oil filter. should i ?
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...7/88a4fbda.jpg

That powersteering bracket is supposed to bolt to the stud in the end of the heat exchanger end plate. When you try that you are saying it hits the header tube? Looks from the pictures as though it may fit.
There is also a 2008 and newer HP525efi square powersteering resirvior bottle with a different bracket that would probably fit also but I think its a pretty pricey part.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Ray, yes I know where it is supposed to mount but the #1 cylinder tube is a lot further forward than the stock headers and the bracket doesn't fit. I may need to cut the fork off the bottom of the bracket and then drill a new whole for the stud to bring the whole thing forward about 1/2"

They look really nice, Sippy. I'm sure you'll get the minor details worked out. There seems to always be something even with the simplest "bolt on" product. How much did they cost? How are they better than the CMIs? Heavier gauge steel?

Better? The biggest thing IMO is that the outer tubes are larger diameter which results in more space between the inner and outer tubes allowing more water to flow through. One of the main reasons the stock headers inner tubes crack is due to not enough space between the tubes especially in the tight bends. This causes extreme heat in these ares. Seems to be more on the #7 and #8 cylinders with the tightest bends. It's not so much the heat but the extreme degree of cool down that will crack pipe. Check your pipes for blueing. Chances are your aft two tubes are blued esp on the inside.
Hardin headers are also heat treated, and hand crafted

looks like your almost done,,i see you have the longer jumper hoses ,we had to cut and add a hose adapter to mine. i didnt have to deal with the reservior its in a different area.i think making brackets andgetting things to fit are just part of our sport,,they look great

Knock on wood....I have a 2005 model 525 w/180 hrs. and so far so good. I did the bypass hose recall and drain them after every use.

I have a 6-8" rubber exhaust hose between the tails and the tips.

Thanks twin. Actually the starboard side is the same so I had to use the stock jumper but the port side needed the longer one

Hey Sippy I installed the same headers as you last year and have the same power steering reservoir as you. I ran across the same problem and modified the bracket buy cutting off the ears and welding a small corner to the rear part of the bracket and drilling a new hole in that corner. If you need to ask me any questions give me a call 631-457-0117 Joe

lol here i go "over thinkin it" again!!

i ran my boat and hurricanes on the muffs for the first time today and i noticed a couple things. i seemed to have more water coming out of the starboard side than the port side. i would say about twice as much. also my #1 cylinder pipe was really hot and every other pipe was cool. the starboard side was also cooler than the port side. Do i have an issue here? do i need to restrict the starboard side?

i think i remember reading somewhere about a cmi modification that restricts the crossover hole on the starboard side tailpipe. is this necessary on the hurricanes? here is a link to a short video and you can see the difference in water coming out of the exhaust. sorry for the poor quality.

i know it could be the fresh water pump so i will change that but you would think it would effect the flow all around. the main question is, why is my #1 cylinder pipe too hot to touch?

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...h_d66c5d65.jpg

Sippy, that doesn't look right or sound right. There would be some differential between the starboard and port side because the exit out of the freshwater heat exchanger has one more pass thru the cooler on the port side than the starboard side before it exits the exchanger and you could see enough higher volume of water on the starboard side to require you restrict it with an smaller orfice insert at the header water entrance manifold to balance the two sides. You would have to watch the water pressure especially at high rpms to make sure it does not get to high from this restriction procedure. The added restriction here on one side should also be sized carefully as it will tend to send an increased volume of water to the other side and will more quickly balance the volume of the two sides.

We see this same condition on the Merc 496's that have the same heat exchanger plumbing setup.

As for #1 cylinder exhaust tube exterior getting too hot to touch , especially after the water volumes to each side are equal would be a no- no and might indicate a restriction in the feed to that particular tube or the inner tube is to close or touching the outer tube and not allowing enough water to pass that point and cool the tube. The feed point at the bottom of that tube where it transitions from the water manifold could be restricted or clogged also, so check that.

You might want to also be talking here to Hardin (and they to Lightning) if there is an actual problem with the header and they might also want to input on some checks and fixes. This is how they learn and improve also. Feedback!

You are not overthinking here just being careful and getting it right! good observations and thinking!
Good Luck, hope you get all your bugs worked out!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

The difference in flow does not look good but the hot #1 tube could just be the limited water volume through the hose. I'd put it in the water and see if either or both of your problems go away.

Thanks raylar and thirdchild. I questioned the garden hose as well and some others suggest that part of the problem may also be from the boat sitting un-level. In my drive starboard side is much lower than the port.

I have sent a pm to hardin.

I will test it in the water this weekend before I get too worked up.

My port side header gets pretty warm when flushing on the hose but the water volume out the tips looks pretty equal. I don't have that problem when the boat is in the water. I try to limit my flush to just a few minutes and do not go above 1000 rpms.

Cooling flow 101
 

Again, anybody with a Merc HP525efi, 600sci, 700sci or a Merc 496 needs to remember and study the diagram if needed for the FRESHWATER COOLING HEAT EXCHANGER and you will see that the raw cooling water leaving the exchanger and going to the exhaust manifolds or headers is taking one additional pass thru the exchanger before it goes to the PORT side exhaust and there fore there can be automatically more flow that will go to the starboard side exhaust because it has less distance and resistance to get there. 4 passes thru cooler for Port side, 3 passes thru cooler for Starboard side.

This differential can be adjusted with some orfice type careful restriction of the starboard flow volume and that will balance the two sides. Fluid flows seek the path of least resistance to flow.

Flow and heating issues beyond or in addition to this can come from low feed flow to the raw water pump (muffs, hose feeds, etc.) or from a weak or poor raw water pump output, from impellor or housing issues, or from restrictions in lines, hoses, fittings and coolers (oil, PS & fuel) leading to or from the engine in the raw water paths.

Low flow or uneven cooling or overheating can come from restricted flows of exiting raw water to and through the headers or manifolds as well as in the case of double wall tubular headers inner tubes or fittings that are up against the outer tube, blocking or choking off raw water cooling flows around the tubes or through internal header passages.

Sorry, not trying to run a class in exhaust cooling 101 here, but the freshwater cooled engines listed above have some slightly unique design and actions that owners of these engines should understand when they see variations or potential problems like these.

Hope these explanations make sense and are useable.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar