Your full of S H I T Yankey.......FRIEND??!!.......I don't do stuff like this to friends, customers, or strangers. And I also told you my Father had a stroke and have been dealing with alot lately, but still I tried to call you several times. If your my friend then CALL ME and talk to me direct .

Mike, Thank You sir! Exactly. We don't spend people's money foolishly. I take in consideration many factors in a project. And spread the money out were the clients have the parts correct for the application without spending money in the wrong places. This job didn't need $2,800 ea. Sonny Bryant crankshafts for an example . I have my heart and soul in ever thing I do and treated peoples pieces like my own. This is my passion , I'm at the shop 7 days a week 90 plus hours of blood , sweat , and horsepower and my goal is to make people happy and have the best running engines out there! This is ALL I do. Again thanks Mike

Thank YOU!.....Our policy is if there is a problem of ANY KIND the engines are to be delivered back to me COMPLETELY RIGGED...not disassembled.....even if the problem did lie in a header issue per say , I still would have helped out in some way to save the client money. I am human and have a heart.

It's very sad and pathetic how people forget what you do for them. Whether it's trying to educate them or save them money.

damn this thread has exploded! this is no good.......

i gotta say...its pretty straight up of Mrhorsepower to still offer to help Yankey after all this.
this is just a $hity situation all around that IMO shoulda been handled in private before going public.
Yankey....you shoulda took the motors back to Gellner brotha. thats how it works. any good engine builder will tell you that its common policy that once someone else has been into that engine....all bets are off. most ,if not all other builders would just tell you that you are 100% on your own once you admitted to tearing them down yourself.....and then went public with accusations without even offering the chance to make it right.

swallow your pride and call him...give him a chance to make it right. i know it stings and your pissed...but dont cut your nose off to spite your face in this situation.

i dont know what your goal with this thread was....was it just to inform the guys o fthis sight that Gellner is a crook and screwed you over?

[nm

Mr. dbkski, For the record I do not personally know either of the two parties involved in this disagreement. That includes never speaking to either one of them.

In the future, do some research before making a senseless statement on a respected forum.

That sums it up right there. Good call 2tonchevy.
Yankey, do the right thing. Call Dean. You two guys can work this thing out. Don't look back, it is time to look forward-------to enjoying the summer of 2012.

This thread is really getting outta hand. Bottom line here is Schmidt and dean step away from keyboard and chat. Maybe it's a oneoff on the build (which could be possible ) and/or maybe it's something Schmidt did without obviously intending to and whacked his own engines (reversion of some sort). Or a combo of both.

Bring the engine to dean, and what's his I'm sure he will own up to it,and if it's something else then it can only be Schmidt or somebody else that has been involved.

I no prolly way easier said then done
:ernaehrung004::ernaehrung004::ernaehrung004:

.....

well said my friend. thank you .

I have read every word of this thread and this is what I have to say.

Mr Gellner, you have nothing to worry about regarding the negative comments from Mr Schmidt as he has made everyone on here realize that he is an idiot. The builds may not have been perfect, but he is in the wrong.

The time is now Yankee . Deans' intentions come shining through , unfortunately so do yours . I fear your burning the bridge you should be crossing , seems obvious to all but you . You are in danger of turning all who visit here , definitely not good !!! Think

We friends...not in a long time probably somewhere in '09. Dean you know how to get ahold of me, you have had plenty of time also. If I recall I just sent you another email, and text two weeks ago, but never said anything. I have told you before I want it in writing...l have learned my lesson with verbal anything (i won't tell all I saw and heard).
As far as shipping something back there...NEVER. It took two years to years the first time. I am not going down that road again.
We never sat down and went through anything...I'm still trying to find all those savings, but I do have a list of expenses based from missed committments.
2 years insurance on a boat I can't use - 2x $1700.00
1.5 years Whisky Island Rack Storage - 1.5x $3400.00
2 years Climate Controlled Indoor Storage - 21x $155.00
.5 years Ligghthose Marina Rack Storage - .5x $3200.00

I think I'll let you all carry on. I'll go back to being a terrible person.

Well, most of you know the situation I also went thru with another builder, NOT Gellner Engineering, I actually suffered thru 4.5 years of headaches and presonally pulled my enginre 11 times! but not once did I do any dissassembly I renturned them to the builder and held him resopnsible! , he finally got them wright, on numerous occasions Dean was my sounding board for all questions issues and recomendations, I have newer sepnt more than $500 at his shop but He and Carrol (mom) treated me like a million, I am small time compaired to most but the Gellners treated me with the ut most respect and professionalism.. I do call him my friend, Thanks again Dean!... Dave

mr schmidt,maybe powerpoating is just not for you,maybe you should try sailboating,some say it offers peace&tranquility.

Never sat down and went through anything!! I walk you through the entire build and step by step tried to educate you on how we do things, spent hours with you explaining things how things are done and why...you can't buy that kind of education and most builders don't even detail a invoice like we do!! I will make my list to since you really want to be like that bro. HOW CAN I TALK TO YOU WHEN YOU DON't AANSWER YOUR PHONE. I tried to contact you again this week . and asked you to call me.

mr gellner,after all the attempts mr schmidt has made to make you look like the bad guy,i cant understand why you would waste your time trying to talk to him,he had someone else take the engine in question apart,he has done his best to attempt to cast a bad lite on your business,but it appears that most have seen threw his bs.your reputation as a fair,honest,and excelent builder is well known in the boating world,and i assure you mr schmidt,s attempts to tarnish your reputation have failed.and just for the record,i do not know mr schmidt or mr gellner,never met or spoke to either of these gentelmen.

Man I met dean 3year ago in key west my buddy had his motors done by dean and he loves them so this year deans doing my motors and he is a straight up dude.when you call if he does't answer he will call you right back and he goes over everything with you

[QUOTE=yschmidt;3627344]We friends...not in a long time probably somewhere in '09. Dean you know how to get ahold of me, you have had plenty of time also. If I recall I just sent you another email, and text two weeks ago, but never said anything. I have told you before I want it in writing...l have learned my lesson with verbal anything (i won't tell all I saw and heard).
As far as shipping something back there...NEVER. It took two years to years the first time. I am not going down that road again.
We never sat down and went through anything...I'm still trying to find all those savings, but I do have a list of expenses based from missed committments.
2 years insurance on a boat I can't use - 2x $1700.00
1.5 years Whisky Island Rack Storage - 1.5x $3400.00
2 years Climate Controlled Indoor Storage - 21x $155.00
.5 years Ligghthose Marina Rack Storage - .5x $3200.00


OK, I am confused about the storage,

[QUOTE=mike tkach;3627408]mr gellner,after all the attempts mr schmidt has made to make you look like the bad guy,i cant understand why you would waste your time trying to talk to him,he had someone else take the engine in question apart,he has done his best to attempt to cast a bad lite on your business,but it appears that most have seen threw his bs.your reputation as a fair,honest,and excelent builder is well known in the boating world,and i assure you mr schmidt,s attempts to tarnish your reputation have failed.and just for the record,i do not know mr schmidt or mr gellner,never met or spoke to either of these gentelmen.[/QUOT

I agree. There is no need for you to come on here and defend yourself. Mr Schmidt hasn't hurt your reputation, he has just made himself look like a fool.

It's out of line IMO when you have a "secret source". It's nothing more than hearsay when you post something like that. Then say the proof is in the pudding? There is no proof, just something you "heard". That was my only problem with it.

Like I said I was hoping to learn something from this thread. And after this thread spiraled now I have. I've learned that when people talk behind keyboards all respect goes out the window. Oh wait, I already knew that.

Glad someone pointed that out. TickTach lost any creditability with those statements. I have never met Dean, but met Yankey when he moved to SC. The motors had 4 hours on them when I first saw the boat. The engines wern't ruined as some ( not Yankey) stated. There were no exhaust manifold leaks. I was there for the next 16 hrs. The motors never ran right and would stall.
I'm an outboard guy with no experience building big blocks. I'm no fool though. I wouldn't return the motors half way across the country to a guy who took 19 months two deliver my motors initally. Why would I think he would be honest with me about the problems, much less fix them in a timely fashion after taking 18 months to deliver the motors initally.
Yankey and Janelle are great people that would give you the shirt off of their backs if they thought you needed it. I hope everyone can go their seperate ways and move on from this.
Feel free to throw me under the bus with the schmidts.
I understand family health issues Dean and I hope your family member is doing better.

[QUOTE=bulletbob;3627718]Glad someone pointed that out. TickTach lost any creditability with those statements. I have never met Dean, but met Yankey when he moved to SC. The motors had 4 hours on them when I first saw the boat. The engines wern't ruined as some ( not Yankey) stated. There were no exhaust manifold leaks. I was there for the next 16 hrs. The motors never ran right and would stall.


Not looking to make things worse, just curious, if the motors never ran right the last 16hrs, did anyone try to figure out why ?

[Not looking to make things worse, just curious, if the motors never ran right the last 16hrs, did anyone try to figure out why ?[/QUOTE]

I'd like to know this too. Stalling can be something as simple as a couple adjustments of the idle mixture screws.

The way the intake gaskets looked, my guess would be they were ran with the intake gaskets leaking/split around the intake ports, probably leaned out and did some damage to the valves, hence the valve/leakdown issues. You can see the paint peeling around the gasket, from raw gas leaking out of the gasket onto the paint.

Not to mention it was clear water was getting in the oil, by the pictures and the fact he did 4 oil changes in 20 hours. Again, looks like the intake gaskets were leaking water in. Water in the oil is no good for lifters, bearings, cam, etc.

It could have been a situation that maybe something like the intakes weren't re-torqued, or not torqued enough, and Running 10, 15, 20 hours with vacuum leaks and water contaminated oil is a sure way to ruin a perfectly good set of engines.

It sounds like by the time Yankee got the engines back, and installed in the boat, he didn't want to deal with Gellner anymore. Did he call Gellner and tell him he found issues when he found them? Im just guessing, but It sounds like he has another mechanic/engine builder that tore them down, and told him all the info that he posted. I think whats questionable, is initially, yschmidt was insuating the engines were junk, and as if a child put them together. Most of us who been around a little, know that this wasn't Gellner's first set of engines he's built. Not that things cant happen, but....

They blamed the valvesprings, machine work, (although the clearances were ok), sealant on the intakes, etc. Mr. schmidt said the valvesprings were 135psi on the seat pressure(insuating that was a problem). He also stated that the engines never saw more than 5000RPM. And mostly ran well below 5000rpm. Even if 135psi wasn't enough seat pressure, i cannot see that causing lifter lofting off the cam lobes, or valves floating at those engine speeds. Wasn't some of merc racing's hyd roller engines set up with 130psi seat pressure? I know dean had told me before he normally sets up a hydraulic roller around 145 or 150 on the seat. Im sure they may lose a couple psi after some run time.

Maybe, if the issues with the water, or performance of the engines was addressed immediatly, Gellner could have had a crack at saving them before any damage was done.

We will probably never know what truly happened here. Were the engines not 100% when they were picked up from Gellner, or did someone else decide to work on them/tune/rig them. When problems were first found, should someone have solved the issues instead of continuing to run the engines when it was clear something was not right.

At this point, it sounds like both parties would be better off parting ways and putting it in the past!

when you get reliable information from someone,and they tell you not to reveal who they are,you dont reveal their identity,or they will never tell you anything again,for that reason,i cannot reveal my source of information,if you have a problem with that,OH WELL.:angry-smiley-038:

BULLETBOB,my name is mike tkach,but if you feel like a bigshot by calling me ticktach,thats ok,just shows your ignorance,buy the way,how long did mr schmidt run the boat with manifolds before installing the headers dean told him to buy?:also,im glad you are friends with mr schmidt,but because you are,you are not seing thing with an open mind.

Just for the record we run 145-150 closed seat pressure on N/A hydralic roller camshafts all the time with zero issues. Supercharged applications I run more. Hope we can all lay this to rest already. And I just would like to say thank you to all for their support. Like I have said before this is my life and passion . I eat , sleep, build , and breath this stuff and care about what I do. I try to help anyone weather a client or not with helpful advice. We haven't won multiple Offshore World and Division Championship because of working 9-5 hours. I'm here 18 hr days through the week and the weeks are usually 12's sat. and sunday. Again anyone who knows me knows I treat there powerplants like they are my kids. Thanks again!

dean , i talked back when about a vacum pump.

sorry wrong thread :whistle:

:fear:......:lolhit:

so... 19 pages of speculation and personal slagging...

fine

but in the end, was it ever confirmed or admitted, or shown that these motors ran with oil pans full of water ?

after all this it would be nice to know what the true root cause is. its not the journal reliefs, clearences, or parts or quality of assembly...

when the oil was changed all those times, was it full of water ? were the headers actually cracked and caused this ?

easy question

As I stated before I am no BBC builder so I cannot tell you anything about the setup on these motors. I did not see water in any excessive (milky) amount in the oil. As Dean stated the exhaust pieces were good. Massive looking cast pieces. I still can understand why it would take 19 months to rebuild two motors.
I have had a builder take nine months to rebuild two powerheads for me only to have them grenade in 1.5 hours. I'm not an engine builder, but, I am an Mechanical Engineer by education. I bought a manual, educated myself. I talked to and watch a professional builder build a powerhead and build my own power now (2.5 liter outboards).
I had no faith that the builder who put me off, while I watched other jobs go before mine, would do anything but try to cover his ass if I returned my powerheads to him.
Mike grow up. When you stated that the exhaust manifolds were leaking you lost any creditability. Dean Ghellner said the manifolds were good. So where you are getting your misinformation is beyond me.
People, such as yourself come on this site all the time making statements like yours and their creditability goes out the window also. Remember these threads are now on the web for EVER along with your statements bashing Yankey. Never did he bash Dean, nor was this thread created to bash him.. He even went on to say he was a good guy outside of their dealings with his motors. So if you want to keyboard punch me in the head so b it. I have a very hard head.
I wish I could help everyone involved to reach a resolution with the motors, but as I stated, I was just lending a hand to a fellow boater that I had just met.

Bob

If he didn't post a picture with the engine builders name on the crank I don't think anyone would have insinuated anything. A simple black-out of the name would have saved a lot of grief. Knowingly posting the picture with the name on the crank makes it look like this was a staged event. If that's not true, it was an error on Yankey's part to post it with the name.

Anyway, life is too short and this world is too small. A lot of time has past since the engines were taken to Gellner and a lot of time has past since they were dynoed, installed and run for a season. Regardless of the amount of ours, it has been a long time on either side of the fence. :party-smiley-004:

Let this thread die
 

For the sake of both parties, this thread needs to be deleted. Absolutely nothing for anyone to gain from reading it.

:whistle:bob.the only person i lost credibility with is you,like i said,you are seing things one side only because mr schmidt is your friend,mr schmidt knows what caused the demize of these engines,as do i.i have made my take on this perfectly clear,as far as you telling me to grow up,you have got to be kidding,right,you come on here making fun of my name,like children in kindergarden do,and you have the balls to tell me to grow up,im sure that got you ton,s of respect from other oso members following this thread,their is only 1 reason a person would change iol 4 times in 20 hours,and that reason is to get rid of the water,period.carry on with your noncence,im done with this,and i hope mr schmidt gets his problems figured out,so he can go boating.

Mike Tkach, why are you so hell bent on stirring the pot? I just read this whole thread and you offered nothing of value. Every one of your posts was confrontational. Why don't you stay out of it and let the guys directly involved and others who have helpful input try to resolve this. Sorry guys. I had to say something.

My big question is why BOTH engines? Both had cracked manifolds? Both had bad intake gaskets? Both got full of water? At the same time? Something was done wrong to both motors by someone, it was not random, bad luck, or that 1 in a million occurrence. Someone blew it.

Thank you. I'm done with this also.

im not trying to stur the pot,as a matter of fact,i am done with this,sorry if you think im being confrontational,im just expressing my feelings,it just pizzes me off whem the builder gets blamed for improper rigging,faulty accessories,or anything else that can cause problems.also,i feel me schmidt was in the wrong for bringing this on an open forum without even giving me gellner a call.when mr schmidt was asked who the builder was,no responce,but he posts a picture with [GELLNER]on the crankshaft,im a guy who sais what,s on my mind,i guess some people operate differently.if i offended anybody ,sorry.and believe it or not,i do hope mr schmidt gets it all figured out and goes boating.