so i got boared to day and decided to take my oil filter off and cut it open after only MAYBE 1 hour of run time last fall. and by one hour i mean for 15 mins at a time.

after dismantling the filter and completely unravelling the paper element i found several (10+ or so) small paper thin flakes of metal in the element. i assume this is bearing material.

i ran the engine hard in the boat for just a few seconds at a time when testing props and checkin hte initial install after the break in on the engine test stand.

i found that my engine builder had put 9 quarts of oil in the engine....this is too much for my pan and it was causing the oil to be whipped up by the crank and the oil pressure was dropping at high RPM and then coming back at low rpm.

im going to change the oil and filter, install a catch screen on top of the filter and run the engine with the boat backed into the water and see what i find in the screen.

any thoughts???

What was done to the engines that they are redone or rebuilt? Who did the work and roughly what was done.

This does not sound or look good and chan ces are the engine is going to have to come apart, at least oil pan off to check the problems. Rmember now that engines with mechanical problems like this DON'T fix themselves so chances are you are going to have to have it fixed either by yourself, or a qualified rebuilder. Hope the problem is fairly minor and does not envolve major repairs.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

well i am planning n the engine being pulled. lol

completely rebuilt. engine decked, lin bore checked, new diamond pistons , steel rods, rings, bearings, isky roller cam and lifters. etc....088 steel heads. crower roller rockers, morrison stud girdles.

this is the original oil that has been in the engine since it was started and ran on the test stand at my builders shop. idk why the hell he put 9 quarts of oil in the damn thing or evn if it is relevant to the problem....but whatever.

i have maybe an hour of run time in the boat collectively and maybe another 20-30 min on the stand. lol wtf????

i guess my 509 is gonna be goin in earlier than i thought.

engine runs fine...no knocks or noise at all......i personally think i need to pull it and just go through the whole damn ting again. i talked to George at Corder Performance engines and he said hes concerned. lol no ****! me too! ha! on ehour four trips out at 15 mins each on a brand new motor. wow. thats gotta be some kinda record!

I understand the engine and build a little better now, thank you. I am not sure that overfilling oil capacity was the cause. If oil was foaming a lot from overfilling, the oil pressure on the engine should have been fluctuating a lot and dropping quite a bit under load to do bearing damage if thats what the metal is. What size pan and oil system is on the engine?
Were oil temperatures allowed to get up to reasonable operating levels before the engine was loaded on dyno or in boat? Describe what oil pressures were and how if any they fluctuated. No, new nicely built performance engines like this should not have serious wear and debris problems at 20 hours but it happens a lot with performance engine builds throughout the country almost every day.
Again, hope the issue is fairly minor and not to costly or damaging to fix.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

thanks for the replies Ray!

i wish i had 20 hours! lol ive got maybe 1 hour.

the pan is a stock steel merc pan with the larger (longer) sump. i think its a 7 quart. maybe an 8.

if it isnt bearing material then what could it be? how far should i dig before i just pull it and get intot he engine. obviously i dont mind pullin the engine and want to save it. but i dont wanna be an alarmist either.

i have ben told that on the initial break in that some flakes are normal.....but not excessive. being that this is the original oil from the first time it was started what do you think?

i am going to back it in the water tomorrow with new oil and filter installed (with a screen on toop of the filter) and run it on the trailer until it comes up to temp and see what i find in the screen. does this sound like a good idea or should i just pull it and tear it down?

im at about 45-50 psi idling and at speed it dropped down to 25psi. and then at idle it creeps back up. the oil temp gauge was not installed until after the last run so im not sure what it was doing.

i literally only ran the engine up to maybe 5000 rpm for maybe 10 times for just a few seconds at a time.

You mentioned on other threads that the oil pressure gauge was acting up on you , are you sure it wasn't trying to tell you something , sure makes me wonder . In the end , don't just fix whats broken , make sure you figure out what caused it . My .02 cents. It's not good to see a cat brother with problems .

The oil pressure at idle does not seem a problem, but dropping at higher rpms IS! The oil pressure should be increasing or holding steady NOT going down! Something is definitly wrong here. Get the oil level in the pan to the correct oil level and test (lightly ) again and maybe crosscheck with a mechanical guage. Not saying the flakes are a direct result of bearing failure or oiling issues but they are not normal in moderate quantities in a 1 hour properly built fresh engine.
I think you definitly have an issue going on here. Did the oil pressure do the exact same thing (pressure drop) when the engine was first tested or operated? If not and the pressures are falling after repeated usage then the bearing issue could be getting worse and you must be careful not to do any furthur serious damage.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Deep:

yeah my gauge was reading low at high rpm and high at idle. im almost certain the cause of htis was too much oil in the pan (9 quarts put in by my builder, thats 2 more than required)

now weather or not the two issues are related is still to be determined. im glad i found the problem now. at least i have time to fix it befor ethe season starts.

the pressure drop was noted the entire time the engien was run in the boat. i first had a mechanical gauge run up to the dash and thought that maybe the run of copper tubing was too long (about 12 feet) and replaced it with a new electric OP gauge.

the engien sounds and runs great as of right now so hopefully what ever the cause i have found it early enough to nip it inthe bud so to speak.

Ray, if the oil pressure level is indeed the cause of the oil pressure drop at speed, what then should i be concerned about?

what it the determining factor on weather or not to pull the engine?

if i do run the engine lightly and OP is good and the flakes subside...then what? i just wanna know when enough evidence is present to warrant tearing hte engine down.

I would wonder if the builder left the windage tray out. If your OP drops at elevated rpm bearings are surely getting fried, btdt. You might run it again with about 6qts just to be sure and cut open the filter again. Make sure you are chiseling the filter open. Sawing it open is NFG for obvious reasons. I would not do the screen in the filter, just cut it open after another run. FYI - typically when windage is the issue you get a nasty burnt oil smell in the cockpit from the oil hitting the pistons. Do you smell oil when running?

blue: thanks for your reply

i have never noticed a burnt smell in the cockpit...but then again i have an open engine bay and it may be hard to tell.

the tray that bolts to the main caps (if that is what you are referring to may have been left out....i did not have one to begin with.....but then again i told the builder whe i took it to him to install anything and everything that was necessary and he said he would/did. most engines ive pulled apart dont have a tray on the mains....why is that?

the builder bought the rings, bearings, seals, gaskets, and other build material. i just bought the hard parts.

it may be that my builder just built me a piece of $h!t. idk. lol he has been in business a LONG time and builds 30k dollar race motors for people all over the country.....so who knows.

this sucks a fat one for sure...but at least if i have to pull it i can still boatin this summer. lol