454 330hp version and alpha 1 drive?
 

how will the alpha 1 drive hold up to the 454 with 330 hp? right now i have a 300 hp 350. i know its only 30 hp more but not sure how much more torque the 454 has? i know if im easy getting outta the hole it will help. i got the bravo drive as well but if i can get away this summer with out having to do the drive swap as well id like to do that and can do the drive swap over the winter. whats everyones thoughts? i know they used to pair the 454 with the alpha.

What boat is this on? Alphas can handle a big block, alot comes down to the weight, driving habits. Boats that cam factory with BB's and alphas had a HD alpha on them and are said to be stronger. What is the reason going from a small block to a big block if it is the same HP? Just curious.


John jr

That package was only offered for one year from Mercuriser so that should tell you something.

boat is a 24' sleekcraft with open bow and mid cabin. the reason to switch is my 350 is getting tired doesnt push my boat along all but 35mph and i got that package deal of a 454 and bravo drive. so i know its been done with a alpha drive and 454 and i wanted to see if it would hang for one summer here in havasu and this winter put the bravo drive on and build up the 454 a bit so i can get some more speed out of the boat

High risk...especially in a single engine application.

What I don't understand is why you are waiting to swap the Bravo Drive as well. You already will have the engine out...just go ahead and do the transom assembly and drive while you are at it....why do double work? Since you already have everything you need...it's easy to do at this point. All you have to do is drill 2: more holes in the transom for the Bravo TA assembly and start bolting up.

Don't wait..it won't take you more than another day to get it all done now.

ok cool i just dont have all the gimble and other parts for the bravo drive right now. and i plan on rebuilding the 454 this winter anyways so it will have to come out again i just dont think my 350 will make it all summer and was gonna put the 454 in to get me throught the summer trouble free.

454 equals Brave 1, however you get X+Y to equal Z it doesnt matter. Spending time and money now will save you double in the long run

OK...now I understand...you didn't get the 454/Bravo package...you only bought the engine and drive. BIG difference. The Bravo is no good to you without the Bravo Transom Assembly...major component of this swap. Sounds like you might have bought a tired 454 to replace a tired 350? The 454 has 100 more ft lbs of torque than the 350 on it's best day and if the Alpha is as old as the 350 you can bet the 454 will spit it out into the lake. I say limp around with the 350 and save up for the items you need to get the 454 Bravo package together. You could end up blowing the Alpha out and have nothing to cruise around in.

yeah that makes sense, but if you have the engine out now you my as well make it right and plop that 454 in, but with the time and money I can see what your doing.

cool thanks for all your feed back thats what i was looking for the 454 isnt tired the guy upgraded to a 496 and the package deal was to hard to not pass up from what i have now. so ill see how the motor does and start accumulating parts for the swap.

Bottom line is that if you do not have all the parts to do the bravo conversion now, put the big block in, don't be pulling hole shots, the alpha will last you through the summer, with out a problem. I have ran a alpha for years behind a 400 hp sbc. It failed do to something other then a down shaft breakage or gear issue. Yes the bravo would be optimal, but guys act like its going to break as soon as you put it in gear, thats BS. I have seen boats much heavier then yours live for YEARS with a BB and alpha set up. People tend to hype things up more then they need to. Same as some say you will spit Bravos with anything over 550 hp, again I have seen first hand, they can take it.. But good luck what ever you decide to do.. :drink:


John jr

just be easy on the throttle. remembering the drive may be as tired as the mouse that used to push it. keep an eye out for craigslist 200 buck alpha lowers. you don't hafta buy one, but you need to know where they are...

You will be very pleasantly surprised that you will be able to find a complete Bravo Transom Assembly for $1000 or less. Your steering will work and most likely your cables. Your Y-pipe will also work if you are going through prop exhaust. You didn't say but I suspect with the 454 you also got the cooling pump and all the hoses as well as the Bravo bell housing and coupler. Dude...if you have an extra thou to throw at this thing save your self DOUBLE work, put the Bravo together and go run the $hit out of it...that's why you bought it anyway.:evilb:
It's not that big of a deal...I'm doing it as I write this with twins. http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/f...-update-4.html

If I can do it...you can do it.

You and your boat will have a great Summer and you won't be pu$$y footing around looking over your shoulder every time you get on a plane.

Now..if all you got was a long block...then you have some serious things to consider. All of us here can help you figure out what you need.

Just my thoughts...good luck with it which ever way you go.

what all is needed to swap over to the bravo setup? what can i reuse from my aplha set up?

That will be easier to answer once you know what you got in the deal...but for sure you will need the Bravo Transom Assembly with the trim rams and pump. There have been a few for sale in the Swap Shop over the past few weeks. You just missed these for $250 each...representative of what comes available.http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...ssembilys.html

Make a list of every thing you got for the 454.

Meanwhile...good but brief article.

http://www.allardmarine.com/alpha_to...conversion.htm

had a 454/alpha in a baja 24' for 4 years...beat the sh*t out of it...never broke anything....jmo

A 454/330 is not the "optimal" engine to start with, unless you plan on maxing out around 425hp. It has small heads, cast bottom end, and none of the goodies you'll want for a performance platform.

If you are getting it for a song, then maybe that's worth it to you.
It's another 100 lbs in the tail end of your boat as well (which may be more than you want).
The bravo weighs about 50 lbs more as well.

A big block with an aluminum intake, and some headers (or aluminum exhaust manifolds) weighs the same as a stock smallblock. Add aluminum heads and you're even lighter.

Obviously budget plays a role here, and you're wanting to do it in stages - but if you swap in a 454 with your garden-variety Alpha, you should not go up in prop pitch much. If you are running a 19 or 21 right now, then don't go up more than 2" to minimize the additional torque on the gears. Even if the motor wants to rev past 4600, don't prop it up unless you want to roll the dice on the drive eating itself.

You can have twenty people tell you how their Alpha has lived forever on their hard running boat, but that doesn't do squat for you when you're waving your arms for a tow back to the ramp with a big rainbow of gear oil spreading out around your boat. The smell of gear oil also works as a reverse-aphrodisiac on women. They tend to get less frisky when they have to smell it.

A fresh Alpha can handle 375 ft lbs of torque without any problems and have a long life if it doesn't spend any time with the prop entering the water under power (jumping wakes, etc). A fresh 350/260 will put out around 340 ft lbs. A 454/330 cranks out more like 450ft lbs. Both motors have a torque peak of around 2800-3000rpm, which falls off as it picks up additional revs.

Just figure the more good information you have, the better you are equipped to make a good decision with your wallet.

MC

Also, I've had a lot of boats.

I broke a vertical shaft on a low-hour Alpha behind a stock 350/260 coming up on plane dragging a handfull of people on tubes. I was running a 21 pitch prop and knew I should put a 17 on for such stuff, but I didn't want to go to the hassle. As all of them started to break surface and plane, some guys fell off their double tube and it went upside down, and headed for the bottom like a submarine. The tug should have broke the tow rope. It didn't. The vertical shaft snapped right at 2900 rpm as the motor bogged under the load. THAT is how close an Alpha runs to max torque on a SMALLBLOCK, so you need to listen to the advice to baby it if you put in a 454.

I've gone through 2 sets of Bravos behind a pair of bone stock 502/410's - so don't be thinking that Bravos are bulletproof either. With additional power, you'll need billet top caps and good gears at bare minimum once you cross the 525 ft-lb border.

MC

i snapped a pre alpha vert shaft with a 400 small block that was essentially stock. (260 merc cam) of course it was a 79 24 sundancer. heavy old beast. but about the only boat that could take on sprinks 255 formula in a marine demolition derby. pre-alphas are a bit weaker with the spring pin hole drilled into the top.

Well, I can say that I know that an alpha will live behind a 454....how long depends on you. I had an 87 Scarab Panther that had twin 454s and Alpha drives on it. I did break several, but that was my fault jumping wakes. I broke the counter rotating drive twice (lower unit both times) and broke the standard rotation drive once (snapped the verticle shaft). I never had a problem with the drives during normal driving. If you really plan to do it, drive it like it's made of glass and make sure you put a drive shower on it. I personally would make the change to a bravo since the engine will be out of the boat...plenty of decent deals out there for regular bravo drives and transom assemblies. Keep in mind that on a single engine boat, if you break the drive...YOUR STUCK! I always had the other motor to get me back to the dock when I broke a drive

A good amount of "How it will last" is going to depend on the current condition of the Alpha, as well as how you drive the boat. If you are a "hard" driver then chances are at some point it's going to break sooner then later. If you can "nurse" the boat and be quick on the stick in the rough stuff then I'd bet you could make it last. However like said earlier if the motor is out you have already done a good part of the work. Do it all the right way the 1ST and last time if possible.

well looks like im gonna wait and do it all at once thanks for all the input guys i appreciate it.

It aint pretty but here is one on ebay...$5 plus shipping with 2 days left. No reserve.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-Bravo-I...e44474&vxp=mtr

this will work for any bravo drive?

Yes. The only difference between a Bravo 1 and a Bravo 3 is the lower unit. The transom assembly will be identical.