How much hp increase can u expect by adding intercoolers
#11
Registered

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,439
Likes: 93
From: yorkville,il
Thanks Ray! Sometimes I see, questions answered with just something off the top of the persons head or just an opinion. We all should work from data gained by our own experience or facts of information given the manufacturer.
I know a lot of us are busy right now with little time to spare on the forum. I felt I needed to take the little extra time to explain this before the guy went out and spent money, with low results.
I know a lot of us are busy right now with little time to spare on the forum. I felt I needed to take the little extra time to explain this before the guy went out and spent money, with low results.
#12
Registered

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 11,332
Likes: 73
From: chicago
Lets say you have a smaller 250, or 256 blower on top of a 502, and shooting for 6-7psi. The 250 sized blower will need to be overdriven, probably lets say 80%. So, at 6000 RPM, the blower will be turning almost 11000 rpm, making a ton of heat under the blower. Now, lets say the discharge air temp was 250 degrees. You add a intercooler, with a core that is say, 50% efficient. You dropped the air charge to 125*. maybe you gain 30hp.
Now, you replace that entire setup, with a larger blower, and underdrive it, so that at 6000 engine RPM, the blower is turning around say 5400 RPM to make 6psi. Your blower discharge temps maybe would be 150*. So now you're getting close to what the intercooled overdriven blower is doing, but you have much longer supercharger life, no core to leak, for the same HP level.
Installing a intercooler on something thats already underdriven and efficient, I can see it not making substantial power gains at low boost. Because there just isnt enough heat generated for a drastic air temperature change. Your discharge temps are getting close to the core temperature. Kinda like running your car's air conditioner on a 40* day. If the cabin temperature is 40*, turning the a/c on isnt gonna drop the temperature down to 0*, but on a 100* day, it can very well drop the temperature by 40*, down to say 60.
Once the boost psi rises, there is heat produced just from compressing the air, no matter what kind of blower you are running. At that point, the intercooler becomes more effective at removing the heat, and should show nice gains.
I know that some guys feel bolting on a superchiller will tuck them in at night, and allow them to cram any amount of boost they want into the engine, because they have this. While it may not hurt to install it, the other engine parameters such as cylinder head, cam choice, compression ratio, water temp, octane used, blower size and efficiency, ignition timing, plug heat range, and many other variables come into play for what a engine can make, or can take.
Im no expert, but these are things i ponder about while staring into space, which is quite often....lol
My personal setup is a somewhat large blower, on a somewhat small engine, underdriven at 7% and 6psi. Would adding just a standard aluminum cored chiller do much without changing anthing else, probably not. However, adding a cupranickel core, and lets say 3 more psi, well now im making quite a bit more. But, at that point, my drives, crankshaft, and other parts probably wont stand up to it.
Now, you replace that entire setup, with a larger blower, and underdrive it, so that at 6000 engine RPM, the blower is turning around say 5400 RPM to make 6psi. Your blower discharge temps maybe would be 150*. So now you're getting close to what the intercooled overdriven blower is doing, but you have much longer supercharger life, no core to leak, for the same HP level.
Installing a intercooler on something thats already underdriven and efficient, I can see it not making substantial power gains at low boost. Because there just isnt enough heat generated for a drastic air temperature change. Your discharge temps are getting close to the core temperature. Kinda like running your car's air conditioner on a 40* day. If the cabin temperature is 40*, turning the a/c on isnt gonna drop the temperature down to 0*, but on a 100* day, it can very well drop the temperature by 40*, down to say 60.
Once the boost psi rises, there is heat produced just from compressing the air, no matter what kind of blower you are running. At that point, the intercooler becomes more effective at removing the heat, and should show nice gains.
I know that some guys feel bolting on a superchiller will tuck them in at night, and allow them to cram any amount of boost they want into the engine, because they have this. While it may not hurt to install it, the other engine parameters such as cylinder head, cam choice, compression ratio, water temp, octane used, blower size and efficiency, ignition timing, plug heat range, and many other variables come into play for what a engine can make, or can take.
Im no expert, but these are things i ponder about while staring into space, which is quite often....lol
My personal setup is a somewhat large blower, on a somewhat small engine, underdriven at 7% and 6psi. Would adding just a standard aluminum cored chiller do much without changing anthing else, probably not. However, adding a cupranickel core, and lets say 3 more psi, well now im making quite a bit more. But, at that point, my drives, crankshaft, and other parts probably wont stand up to it.
#13
I believe Mild Thunder, gave a excellent example also, he went into detail. If you have a 250 Blower Shop Blower, and you want to drive it at 10 psi on a 510-540, you better have a inter-cooler on it or you will burn the engine up.
If you really think your answer was good information. That's fine, I would never tell one of my customers or anyone on a forum that if you bolt on a intercooler it will give you 75+ hp with out going into some details. I am not going to get into a pissing contest here, this here is one reason why, I look at the post and do not try to help, because someone either wants to argue with you or people think there's an agenda playing out. I myself, do not have time to watch and answer, questions that come up. If I see something that I can help with and it seems that question is still open, I will try to help.
Sorry you feel that way, Bob Teague, should have gone into detail with you with his answer.
Mark
#14
Thread Starter
Registered
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
So now I really getting confused. I will leave it up to my builder. Hopefully he knows what he is doing because I dont. Intercooler sea strainers are required I understand. Can someone recommend a good one for a reasonable price? Hardin has something is that what should be used? Or who's
#15
Registered

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 11,332
Likes: 73
From: chicago
So now I really getting confused. I will leave it up to my builder. Hopefully he knows what he is doing because I dont. Intercooler sea strainers are required I understand. Can someone recommend a good one for a reasonable price? Hardin has something is that what should be used? Or who's
Cylinder heads
Cam specs
Static compression
Blower size
Have you currently been running this combo?
#16
Thread Starter
Registered
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Sorry don't really know. Dart block, dart steel heads, weiand 10-71 blower. 775 hp before rebuild 4 to 5 lbs boost. Under driven. Holly 4150 dual 650?
Adding blower shop intercoolers retuning carbs.
Cam ?
Have run that set up or many years
Have local engine builder that has given me high realiabilty in a low maintainance package
Adding blower shop intercoolers retuning carbs.
Cam ?
Have run that set up or many years
Have local engine builder that has given me high realiabilty in a low maintainance package
#17
Registered

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 11,332
Likes: 73
From: chicago
If your compression is low enough, I can see adding the chillers, cranking the boost up to around 7. That should net about 75-100HP in my opinion. With iron heads you have to be careful a bit, not to get crazy with boost on pump gas. I'd keep the water temp as cold as possible. Believe it or not that helps quite a bit. Hot heads, always detonate before cold ones.
You say dual 650 carbs??? If this is true, I would most indefinitly get rid of them, and add a pair of 850's, or even 950's. Its very very hard to overcarb a roots, and they need a unrestricted air inlet. Lots of guys will tell you not to run big carbs, because it will be blubbery, rich, doggy low end, etc. its just not true with a roots blower. A 540CI with a roots making 7psi, will require about 1400CFM. Adding 15% margin, is about 1600CFM. So, 750's should be ok, but 850's or 950's would be my pick. At least if you plan on turnin a bit of rpm and crankin up the boost
You say dual 650 carbs??? If this is true, I would most indefinitly get rid of them, and add a pair of 850's, or even 950's. Its very very hard to overcarb a roots, and they need a unrestricted air inlet. Lots of guys will tell you not to run big carbs, because it will be blubbery, rich, doggy low end, etc. its just not true with a roots blower. A 540CI with a roots making 7psi, will require about 1400CFM. Adding 15% margin, is about 1600CFM. So, 750's should be ok, but 850's or 950's would be my pick. At least if you plan on turnin a bit of rpm and crankin up the boost
#19
Registered
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,777
Likes: 12
From: San Diego, California
Not knowing your engine builder and assuming he is a great engine builder with good historical results, it still is good and customary for any good builder to give you a detailed build spec. on the new engine rebuild complete with head size, prep and model, camshaft specs., compression ratio, ignition system, carb specs., etc., etc. You should not feel awkward asking for this written specifications as well as all major engine system rework and changeouts. With this full build spec. some knowledgable builders here on OSO can possibly help with some good evaluation and help you confirm you are doing this engine upgrade project in a "best way" scenario.
I know some of these details may be a liitle Greek to you but they will ultimately determine what you end up with on your newely upgraded blower 540.
As for a raw water strainer for the intercooler if used will be pretty easy item to select based on where and how you will be feeding raw water to the intercooler, seperate pickup, seperate tap of of existing raw water feed, etc. Intercoolers generally don't take anywhere near the volume of water that the engine cooling system uses so line sizes and strainer sizes can be smaller and less expensive.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
I know some of these details may be a liitle Greek to you but they will ultimately determine what you end up with on your newely upgraded blower 540.
As for a raw water strainer for the intercooler if used will be pretty easy item to select based on where and how you will be feeding raw water to the intercooler, seperate pickup, seperate tap of of existing raw water feed, etc. Intercoolers generally don't take anywhere near the volume of water that the engine cooling system uses so line sizes and strainer sizes can be smaller and less expensive.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
#20
Registered

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 11,332
Likes: 73
From: chicago


