are parts supposed to be this expensive?!
 

I am having some work done at a local marine service center and I am getting the feeling they are over charging me on parts. Could you please take a quick look at my receipt (attached) and tell me what you think?


A little information about my boat:

1994 Mach 1 2900 Endeavour w/ twin Mercruiser Mark IV 454 mags and Bravo 1 drives.


Back-story:

The boat has been sitting for approximately the last 2 years. Shortly after parking the boat due to an overheating problem, the hull filled with water during a storm enough to seep water into the engines through the rear main seals. This was the reason the engines would not start. The mechanic was able to drain and free the motors and replaced many parts damaged by the water and a few that he uncovered during his work He then took it out for a test run and resolved the overheating issue by removing the thermostat.


heres a pic of my receipt. I can email a PDF version that can be blown way up to see it better if needed
http://s1161.photobucket.com/albums/...t=f9a7dc05.jpg

Your file did not show up, and yes it is an expensive hobby.

resolved the overheating issue by removing the thermostat???

take that boat somewhere else...
thats a BS fix

well, the pic didnt work. I'll do it this way...

2 Bell housings = 983.98
2 U-joint bellows = 192.16
2 shift bellows = 58.00
2 inlet hoses = 74.00
2 seals = 33.16
2 inserts = 7.52
4 washers = 8.92
2 Bushings = 38.86
4 U-joints = 242.32
2 Impeller Kits = 186.50
2 Sender Kits = 186.50
2 Oil Filters = 40.00
12 Qts Oil = 95.04
1 Solenoid = 21.50
5 Power trim fluid = 29.75
2 Starter assy = 525.80
1 gasket = 2.29
1 seal = 4.04
1 dipstick = 50.10
28 hours of labor = 2,520.00
shop supplies 35.00
tax 203.42
lake charge 100.00

total = $5,638.86 ouch!!:eekdrop:

I looked around on the net and found very easily that the prices were cheaper than what they charged but I would guess that extensive searching would yield even better results... I'm not too worried about nickling and diming but, if they are tacking on an extra 20% to everything then I am concerned.

I guess what I'm asking is: Are these prices pretty normal or bloated to pad the bill?

what's the 100 dollar lake charge ? . . . free boat ride?

if you google the part numbers yourself . . . you can save a ton

You take it to a mechanic, you pay what they charge you for parts. Prices seem about what I would expect to pay at a dealer/marina.

Why did you need two new bellhousings?

threads were very worn...

Thats what I wanted to know! Thanks!

pretty much.... He took it out to test it.

yeah... I know... just hoping they arent charging me way too much for them to locate and purchase the parts...

exactly, it is no secret that shops make money on parts, as they should. Parts markup in auto is ususally 50%, which is why they don;t want you bringing your own parts.

Marine repair is and always will be expensive, however many have learned things the even more expensive way trying to repair themselves. You are paying for the knowledge, back up of work, keeping the lights on, off season lows, part of the game....and trust me, none of them are getting rich....except maybe Pantera :D

If I could not do basic repair on my boat I wouldn't own it, and by basic I mean everything but the internals of the drive and engine. In this area we can wait 3 weeks to replace a sea pump and impeller. I have invested in a scan tool, and know more about marine parts than I ever wished to know....but it keeps me going on the weekends, and we only have a few up here.

I pay more than the price listed on BAM's site for parts local, but you know what...he always seems to have even the most obscure stuff in stock, for me it is worth it. I purchased a mechanical fuel pump on a Sunday at 11am and went boating that day, priceless if you ask me, the same part is on the web for $40 cheaper, who cares. For routine maint items I shop the web and buy in bulk.

I agree unless he removed and replaced, thermo is a great place for bottle neck of corrosion from the block.

Here is a parts list for your package, IMO they have every right to charge you full list on parts, but not more. http://www.mercruiserparts.com/selec...?doc_nbr=19378

fixx
 

tell your mechanic to suck your left toe...if your engines were to take on water through the rear main seal he would have gone through more then 10 qts of oil,most likely 30 qts..also if the rear main seals were really taking on water your bilge would be full of oil because it would be leaking...

Was he supposed to only fix the problem with the water in the engines? Looks like all he did to the engines was drain the oil and replace the starters. Looks like everything else pertains to the drives and trim system. Not clear as to why he would have done all the work he did to the drives unless you told him to. That would have had nothing to do with it not starting. The prices are probably correct according to merc prices but I don't understand why he did everything he did. I assume those are the drive bell housings he replaced. Those seldom ever need to be replaced unless you crack them by hitting something. New sender kits for the trim gauge? Did you request all these things be repaired? Just saying most of this stuff would have had nothing to do with the water in the bildge problem. Sorry to say but theres probably nothing you can do about it now unless you have the work order only stateing you wanted them to get it started.

Most likely they pulled the threads out of them removing them to replace the bellows. The hinge pins are installed with lock tite and need to be heated to remove them with out damaging the threads. Did you tell them to replace the bellows?

List price on bell housing are about 900 ea.

Just curious, if the boat filled with water from a storm shortly after parking it why did you let it sit for 2 years like that? Sure there was a lot more storms in that 2 years. Don't that boat have a drain?

I agree with you that the marina should be making some profit on parts but many of the parts he replaced were not in stock and had to be ordered... I absolutely would not have minded a 50% mark up if it gets me on the water in a few days but this is not the case as the mechanic had my boat for over 2 months after a 2 week wait list. Still, I'm ok with them making some money off my parts but I just wanted to make sure they were not outrageously over priced... it seems they are not... I just wanted some "expert" opinions so I know if I'm being taken advantage of... I've had my boat for 3 1/2 years but only been able to use it most of 1 summer. Thanks for your parts list link too.

I was under the impression that the rear main seal was basically a one way seal... it would seal the oil in but not the water out if the engine were to be submerged to the seal.

Yes, the drive bell housings. The threads were worn to near non existence on both sides of both housings. All the other work was just to fill the budget. After he "fixed" the starting and running hot issue, he found many other things that needed to be addressed. Bell housings, trim pumps senders, so on and so on...

when I took him the boat I told him that I had $1,000 to find out if it could be fixed and another $4,000 to spend fixing it up if he could do it. I guess I should have asked him to just fix the problems first and then take care of the rest after it ran. I took it out on Friday when he told me it was ready and it ran for about 15-20 minutes when the starboard engine got warm. I slowed down to idle and the engine started to cool slightly and then it died. After it died it would not start again. It acted like it was hydrolocked. I've experienced hydro-lock before and burnt out a starter in my noobie experience so I was very cautious and idled back to the dock on the remaining running engine.

Let me add that I have spent my budget for the year and then some. My wife will shoot me in my sleep if I spend much more. with that in mind and so that you can better understand my position and predicament please allow me to vent a little.

I feel like this guy is a competent mechanic. Though both motors were seized when I broght him the boat. It was the port engine that was overheating before he fixed it.... He took the boat on a lake trial and the engines ran fine for him without getting warm after he removed the thermostats. It was at this point I authorized the rest of the work. 2 months later he told me the boat was ready. That was Friday of last week. Part of the delay was the fact that the bell housings were on back-order from mercury. I verified that by spending several hours on google and calling several different marinas. When I took the boat out, I was understandibly excited. It had been over 2 years since the boat was running. As we all know sitting is hell on boats. The port engine ran perfectly and purred like a mean kitty when he gave the boat back to me. For 15-20 minutes the starboard engine did too... Then the starboard engine started to get warm. I did the boating equivalent to pulling over on the shoulder and let it idle for a while. Just when it started to cool down it died and would not start again.

After reading some of your responses, my fellow boaters, I feel much better about the price tag of the parts I purchased. I still feel frustrated that the boat is still un-usable. I got a pretty good deal on my boat at 18K and it ran great when I got it and it was in great condition with everything working except a couple of selonoids for the capts call and one of the trim switches. I really made a bad mistake when I left the boat outside without the cover and the plug left in the stern. I have been kicking myself everytime I see any boat. I basically threw away many thousands of dollars when I did what I did. When I put it in its un-covered parking spot on the storage lot on a friday over 2 years ago, I had every intention of taking it to another shop for work so I justified not putting the cover on it. I simply forgot to take out the plug. Well, something came up. Something always comes up. I wound up leaving it plugged and uncovered for several weeks when I opened the tail gate on my truck and saw my boat cover sitting there. Let this be a lesson to those of you who are considering not covering your boat. I will never do it again! And, I wont be forgetting to take the plug out either.

I've often thought I just had bad luck with the boat. I've had pretty good luck in most other things. I have a great wife, beautiful family, and a good job. I guess there has to be at least one outlet for bad luck in my life. haha! I know many of you are probably thinking I should cut my losses and get a different boat. I can tell you I have a hard time seeing myself doing that. I dont really have any other toys and I really like my boat. Its hard to find a boat under 30 feet, under 25k with twin engines let alone twin big blocks. And I really like the look of my boat over most others... Seems like with nearly every other brand theres a shape, angle, feature, or something that I dont like. The only thing I dont like about my boat is that it doesnt run.

I wish I had more options for boat mechanics but they are few and far between here in KC. I have considered going down to LOTO or up to omaha, but the drive is too long. With my half ton avalanche you could argue that its too dangerous! But thats another debate and thread all together.

Anyway, for those of you who read it all, thanks for letting me vent. Thanks to those of you who offered advice and opinions. Us new boaters really would be lost without your wisdom.

3 or 4 weeks before I realized what I had done.... then I drained it and covered it... the damage was already done...

yeah, when the mechanic quoted them to me he told me 750 each. I didnt argue when I saw 2 at 980 total, I didnt argue.

After he told me they were bad, I told him to replace them.

By my count thats 4 votes for taking the boat somewhere else. That wasn't really my intention in starting this thread, but I cant ignore that sort of response. Based on what you know now after my last few posts, do you feel the same way?

I found that the marina added a bunch to the list price of the parts needed to repair my boat. Like $100 to the price of a distributor and another $100 to have it sent overnight (didn't ask me if this was ok) after they had sat on fixing my boat while while working on other calls. If I go back to them for anything it will only be after exhausting all other sources. I feel you pain!

None of the prices seem out of line to me. It's an expensive hobby for sure. Older boats always have something going wrong. My advice would be to try and learn as much as you can. A lot of this stuff really isn't that hard if your at all mechanicly inclined. Many of us couldn't afford this sport if we didn't do a lot of this stuff ourselves. Hopefully you can get out a few more times this season and enjoy your boat.

I hate to give you anything else to worry about, but any time a boat is allowed to hold that much water in the bilge I worry about water getting into the transom and the stringers. I'm not an expert on the construction quality of the Mach I's, but if it is anything like a lot of the "second tier" boats out there - and I don't want to come across the wrong way - the builders often cut corners on things like fully glassing in drain holes in stringers and bulk heads, and properly sealing screws for various fixtures inside the boat. When water is allowed to stand in these areas, it can penetrate into the wood coring of the stringers, transom, bulkheads, floors, even the deck and hull itself. A lot of the higher end boats like Formula, Cigarette, Fountain, etc., do a better job in these areas, but even these boats can get rotten if they are not properly taken care of. Before you sink a ton more money into this boat, maybe it would be wise to have someone check for rot in the stringers back there near th engines, as well as the transom.

In regards to the engine issue, if I was to take a guess I would suspect a blown head gasket. Next suspect would be a riser gasket.

In response to a PM from a guy named Travis who is not the Travis in the story below (I asked) and because the PM only allows for 2000 characters:


Travis was the name of the service manager at Smithville Marine a little over two years ago when I took my boat there after it bombed on me the first time I took it out for the new summer in 2010. My boat crapped out on me the latter part of summer 2009 and Smithville Marine "fixed" it and winterized it for me since it was so close to the end of the summer. That was my first lesson in boats. Dont trust a mechanic when they say its fixed.... take it for a test run and make sure its fixed. Anyway, when the weather finally got nice in 2010 I took the boat out and didn't even make it past the no wake zone before the port side engine hydrolocked. I took it back to Smithville Marine and they called me a few weeks later to tell me they couldn't figure out where the water was coming from and they assumed I had a crack in the block. I told them I didn't have money to buy a new engine that they wanted 7k for and they gave me the option of shipping the block off to have it magna-fluxed for a cost of 1,700.... still not knowing whether or not there was a crack I started my first thread on OSO. One of the members up in Omaha offered to sell me a low hour take out for 2000 and I jumped on it. I drove up to Omaha and back to smithville and gave the Long block to smithville Marine. It took them about 3 weeks but they finally got the motor in and called me to tell me it was ready. I took it out for a test run and it sounded like a freaking pogo stick when it cranked. I was startled at first but tried it again and it fired up and sounded normal.. so I went out of the no wake zone and jumped up on plane. Ran it a bit and noticed the foul odor of burning oil. I looked down at the gauges and they all read normal but I shut her down anyway just to figure out if we had a fire. I opened the hatch and could hear what sounded like the oil boiling. It literally sounded like a freaking pressure cooker was under the oil pan and was about to explode. Anyway, I took it back to smithville Marine and told them what had happened and from there through the rest of the summer I went up to smithville about every two weeks to go take the boat on another test run. It never worked and my wife got involved.... this is where it gets ugly. My wife threw a fit, bless her heart, and Smithville wound up giving us the boat back without charging us another dime. I was out 2k for a motor I'm still not sure I needed but smithville Marine didnt charge us for any of their labor or parts they threw into my boat. probably in the vicinity of 2-3k worth of labor charges and who knows how much in shop supplies and odds-n-ends. Travis (service manager) was stuck in the middle. Poor guy was dealing with my wife, the owner of Smithville Marine, and a mechanic who apparently doesnt know his front side from his back side when it comes to boats. (His name is Wendell, I'll come back to him later) So, in frustration I park my boat. (you already know that part of the story) and my wife tells me she doesnt want to spend anymore money on the boat. She was mad and taking it out on the boat, but she was right. We were pretty short on money at the time. She had recently lost her job and we were in pretty dire straights financially speaking. Anyway, my plan was to take the boat down to Performance Boat Brokerage in Camdenton. I figured if anyone could fix my boat they could. But my wife still wouldnt have it. She had been through enough with the boat and didnt want to go through anymore at the time. Well, as the winter came and went she finally got another job in February of 2011. We had moved into an apartment to save some money over the house we were renting and we all hated it. We were on the 3rd floor and the stairs sucked.... not having a garage sucked... everything just sucked... We were saving money for a down payment on a house from that point until late august of 2011 when we bought our house. I promised her I would get her a house if the first thing we did after was fix my boat. She agreed and so we bought the house. Well, buying a house and fixing a boat in the same calendar season doesnt really work very well. I am sure you can understand why. At any rate, I saved what I could when I could and scraped my pennies to come up with a reasonable amount of money but it seemed no matter what something would happen and we would need to tap it. It was one thing after another. A/C problems at the end of the summer, Furnace issues in the winter. I learned just how far a 500 gallon tank of propane goes when you have the heat set by a chilly wife and outside air temps under 20... Then things started looking up until my dog chewed a hole in the entry way floor. Thats a true story! I replaced that with ceramic tile. Good luck chewing through that! Anyway aside from that I was finally able to scrape enough together where I was comfortable putting the boat back in the shop. I had been to B&B before and they looked like an old family of fishermen sitting around selling fishing tackle from their bait shop so I didn't want to go there. There is a ford dealership in Smithville that sells and works on boats. I decided I would give them a shot after extensively searching for reviews. That search yielded very little in the way of reviews. But I figured no news was good news, and it wasnt Smithville Marine so I drug the boat up there. Upon my arrival I began telling the guy at the service counter all about what was going on with my boat 2 years ago and he said "hang on... let me call the boat mechanic up so you can speak directly with him." The guy at the counter got on the intercom system and said "Wendell, come to the service counter. Wendell, to the service counter, please." I said: "You know what?" as my eyes got really big, "I'll come back later!" And I drove across the street to the fishermen at B&B Marine.

That was a little over 2 months ago... Danny is going to look at my boat again on Wednesday or Thursday, so I am hoping for the best.

I was concerned about rot too... I asked Danny, my mechanic to look for it when he was pulling the engines. I got lucky!

How do YOU know the motors were seized ? I ask because your starters would have been under water and probably frozen up solid... Did anyone you trust pull the plugs and turn the motor over by hand?

I'm confused on this bellhousing issue. My bravo bell housings everything threads into the block. The only thing that threads into the housing that I can remember is the inspection plate. The two bolts in the back of the bellhousing thread into the inner transom plate and even if that was the issue the nuts are replaceable as they just slide into a groove.

Either way you asked him to get the engine running not repair everything he found wrong. I personally would never go back to that marina. I think you got screwed!

Hes talking about the outdrive bellhousings aka helmets not engine bellhousings

the pressure cooker boiling noise that you heard with the engine hatch up . . . that was bad exhaust manifolds leaking back into the engine cylinders. You might have had a good running engine, but killed it with some rotted out manifolds

No one did anything like that except the mechanic. I did beat on the starter while the wife turned the key before I took him the boat. It got the starter to turn a bit but the engine (pulleys) didn't move. I even heard the gears grind a bit on the flywheel. I trust the mechanic on that. I know the block was full of water. The dipstick showed chocolate milk over halfway up.

Yes... the drive bell housing.

Is that a common symptom of bad exhaust manifolds? Its no longer making that noise as of my test run on Friday of last week.

I think the exhaust manifolds were replaced with some used ones while the boat was at Smithville Marine. I don't have a parts list or service order from them.

Holy smoke, I don't know weather to laugh at you or cry with you , good luck with the boat!
I would never ever pay the prices you paid to have the stuff done that was done BUT although the parts charges were exorbinant it sounds like the marina just used Merc stuff and there prices are rediculously high on everything- 96$ for 12 quarts of NON-synthetic motor oil-thats 8$ a quart! The u-joints could be bought at any auto parts store for about 12-15$ each , not 60$ but again, no different than going to the ford dealer or something, sounds like they only use oem stuff and thats the price you pay to have a shop do stuff!
I own a repair shop that does transmissions, transfer cases and rear ends, we try to make 30% mark up on our parts but we also try to get the best parts at the best price so are customers will come back in the future , not leave feeling raped! I have always been told in repair business the parts mark-up pays your over head and the labor pays your labor/profit , Smitty

Ya, this guy got bent over. Paid well over list price for parts. 40 bucks for 2 oil filters? 260+ea for a starter that LISTS for 216? Sorry dude. Find a new shop.

Smitty, I am just curious about where you can find u-joints similar to the standard Alpha/Bravo versions. And I am not talking about external dimensions but needle diameter and length.
I have been searching around a lot, while doing so I found GKN lists and even they list Merc u-joints as unique parts.

All i can say is "WOW". Might have been better/cheaper to pay someone to pull the boat to PBC. I am yet to hear a bad review on PBC and that is a difficult task and almost unheard of in the boating/repair world.

I went to a local driveshaft shop about 6 years ago and they matched them up with something, I paid less than 15$ each if I remember correctly, have put about 200 hours on since then with half at 950 hp then half at 1050 plus hp and they felt nice still when I had the drive off this year. Now I dont run it at wot always but still if they were going to fail I should have had problems by now. I neevr compared the trunnions or needles that close so not 100% sure they were exactly the same as Mercruiser, Smitty

Smitty, any chance you remember the manufacturer of the u-joints?

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/d...d-gaskets.html

Seriously?

bravo 1 u joint numbers- spicer 5 -1306x . rockford k1306 . detroit 7260 . neapco 1-6300 / 1-6301 . precision 315g . trw 20030 / 20030p . any napa will have one of them

I ran out of money... so I'm trying to fix it myself.

Just worried for you brother, you have 5k invested, take your time and no short cuts.