moto, you have it backwards. the diff between a rat and a mouse at the same power USE not rating is longevity. a 260 hp smallblock is screaming if you use all of it's 260 hp. a 454 using 260 hp is barely on the secondaries. they outlive small blocks by a large margin in every case of similar use. and the weight-size diff under the hatch is minimal. and fuel burn is decided by how fast you make the hull go, not how many inches is pushing it. if my engines were 2 inches farther apart in my Nova...

Well the 320s running 63 or so makes sense pretty close to big block 330s. Maybe all the other 260s I've seen we're worn out lol

Thanks so much to all who responded. This will help me make a more educated and informed decision with the "napping" Formula or whatever boat I choose. I've also learned that advice from those not trying to be a jerk is also helpful, even if it does move the thread off topic. Now, I like to think of myself as more of an ass than a horse, but hey...8 yrs from now that may change, right? No plans to go anywhere, either. I'm going to "fit right in" here on OSO!
I anticipate a purchase of something in the next few weeks and can't wait till next season. If the winter goes longer than normal, I'm to blame for buying the new boat :boat:. Sorry. Thanks for following along.

also, keep in mind, a lot of boats are gonna be popping up for sale and very few buyers...nobody gets their asking price.

Good point. It is that time of year....

FWIW, I bought a project '84 Formula One (17') last fall. Original owner, 400 hrs. It had been wrapped up since 1995. Merc V6. Fortunately, always a fresh water lake boat so no corrosion issues to deal with.

Here's what I did to wake it up:

Motor appeared to be stuck from sitting, Pulled all plugs, squirted Marvel Mystry oil in all cyls, let sit for a couple days. Waited and still stuck, next step was to pull drive, found gimbal bearing siezed. Replaced and motor, spun just fine. Installed new plugs.

Changed oil (Rotella, concerned about flat tappet cam wear during initial start up) hooked up an outboard tank and primed fuel system, she started right up, ran rough for a few minutes and came right out of it.

Alll bellows needed replaced, aft shift cable too.

Water pump junk

Starter motor junk

New battery

New bilge pump

Pumped stale fuel out through the fuel pick-up. Aluminum tank was fine. In fact, I did not even remove the carb.

Replaced fuel line

I had my fingers crossed when first splashed but it ran just fine. I put 70 hrs on it this season with no issues at all, it proved to be a really fun little boat.

Just winterized, pulled drive to find the upper input shaft seal had puked some gear oil into the bellows, not a lot but enough to need replacing. Must have been a bit of rust on the yoke. Will replace in spring.

If you do buy, I'm sure it will need all the above, x2.

Personally, I enjoy projects like this but as mentioned above, it needs to be a deal because even if the motors are fine, it can get costly.

Up here in Maine, a clean, running 292 will bring 12k on the trailer. I'd offer 7k or so...?

Good luck,

Kurt

I think all these guys are bringing up good points moto. I've been looking for the right 272 for a while so I know how this goes and I have owned BBC boats and SBC boats. There isn't a comparison. It's $150 for a day on the water in either. Lets be honest, there aren't really any of us that sit down at the end of the day with a calculator, a gas receipt, and our gps log to figure out what the boat pulled for MPG that day.... Dual big blocks might burn 30% more fuel wide open, but they will burn equal at a 35mph cruise or really any cruising point.

Now let's touch on that napping issue. The bottom line, everything in that boat not made out of metal, wood, or fiberglass, is suspect. The hoses, vinyl, electronics, etc are all dealing with corrosion and fatigue due to sitting. The valve springs are shot even if they look good. Head gaskets need to be used to stay good, otherwise they dry rot away and you'll likely blow them in the first season. Same is true of intake gaskets. The starter solenoids may work initially but are going to fail along with Alternators. Marvel oil in the cylinders helps, but the fact of the matter is you are going to have some level of corrosion build up inside the motor. Ever notice how those awesome "barn find" classic cars always get trailered away? There is a reason.

Then there is the price. An '89 272 SR-1 sold about 2hrs away from me with 650-ish hours on 350/alpha's for $7800 on a dual axle trailer about 2mons ago. There are 272 square windshield boats all over for 10K or less, turn key on a trailer, and there are plenty BBC/Bravo options in 272/292/311 for under 20K on trailers.

Bottom line: It's your money and what you want and are going to be happy with matters most... But chances are you are going to go way way upside down with this particular boat. The guys on this forum, myself included, don't have a dog in this fight, so they are simply looking out for your best interest. Good luck in your search and with whatever project you buy (all boats are a project. Just accept it now).

Anybody else want this soap box? :angry-smiley-038: I'm all done now :lolhit:

Stll in the hunt
 

I'm still hunting. Looking high and low and willing to travel for the right boat at the right price. I am fussy (wife says it's more like anal.....whatever) about condition. Please keep me in mind if anyone out there happens across a NICE late 80's272 SR1 and shoot any info my way. OSO is becoming a damn addiction, so I will get the message in short order. Thank you gentlemen.

moto, where be ye. cuz if you're in seattle, a miami boat isn't doable even if it is perfect and free...

I talked to my co-worker, he isn't willing o do anything until spring, he has it all wrapped up and put away for the winter and locked down on his covered hoist with no good way to get it off. If you haven't found one by spring, let me know, and I will get you in touch.

Copy that. Does he have any pics he'd like to share? I may be able to rule it out as an option right from the get go. If so, I can PM you my email. If not, we'll see this spring. Either way, thanks for taking time to speak with him.

LOL, perfect...AND FREE? ....Just a few thousand dollar road trip, right? Yep, that one's a bit of a stretch isn't it?

I'm in Cleveland, Oh. where we boat in burning rivers and such....

I'm not sure, ill ask for ya.

Just curious, any other boats out there that interest you in that size range/price range? The old 272 Formula is a nice boat, just not sure Id search high and low for the perfect one. Theres lots of great old boats in that size range, that can be bought very reasonably. Some that come to mind

30FT Scarab Panther
28 or 30ss Sonic
281 Checkmate
Formula 302
Formula 292
Formula 311
Baja 280 or 300es
Scarab 31 Excel
Wellcraft 26 Nova ST
Scarab II
Donzi Z-29

Bunch of others too. Id look at all of them, and find the cleanest, best equipped, structurally sound boat you can swing, and like.

Thanks.

I have looked at a couple of the above and suppose I should broaden the search to other manufacturers. It's easy to get stuck on something. I just love the lines of those 272s and 311s. Was trying to keep it around 27ft mostly for towing and storage purposes in the drive. I will look at the ones I'm not familiar with. Ya never know when something is gonna catch yer eye......

I haven't read all the posts that are on here but I've read enough. For starters as just about everyone here has posted- the price is way to high. Second that boat with twin 350's is going to be a dog. I'd bet you'll be lucky to see 55 mph. When you get sick of that speed, which will take about one trip out, you're going to have big bucks in to to modify it. The drives will have to be converted to bravos for starters and like any modification, your going to need to replace the exhaust. Good luck finding a nice set of used exhaust manifolds, big block- no problem- small blocks are rare and expensive if you find them. The 272 is not much different than my 292 and there is no way I would buy a 292 with small blocks. It took one summer and the 330's were replaced with 450 hp 454's. With that power the boat feels great. With small blocks your going to always be in the secondaries, you will get worse mileage than big blocks.

Just curious, what happened to your fuel consumtion when you went to the 450hp motors from the 330's? Thanks.

It's hard to say- I'd say if anything at cruise its maybe a touch better but if I'm running it hard it will use more fuel. There is nothing worse than an underpowered boat because you're always running it hard. I find it funny when people by little engines in boats because they think they will get better mileage. Unless you're just idling you will get better mileage as your power increases up to a point. At least thats been my findings. I agree with most of the boats that Mild Thunder listed. I will say this though, there are not many boats that are built better than Formulas. They are not the fastest boat out there but they are built like tanks. I've rebuilt 3 over the last 5 years and I've yet to see a rotten transom or stringer or any wood for that matter. And some of these boats had sat outside for years uncovered. The biggest issue are the wood modular panels on the side. These will usually rot out, but its an easy, cheap fix.

The Scarab Panther has great lines and is one of my favorite Scarabs; however, I've read that they frequently have rot issues due to how they were layed up. If you can find a good one though, they are a nice boat.

Sonics are great boats as well. Built tough but again they are heavy and will need power to go fast.

Either way you should be able to find a nice BBC 272 with trailer for $15000.00 or less. I really like my 292 and you can pick them up for around $20-23 for a nice one. Just make sure you get 454 Mags and K-Planes. The best of the 3 is the 311, they are about the same price as 292. I don't know how far you intend to tow your boat but I tow mine locally with a BMW X5 with a V-8. It tows it without an issue!

Little algebra for ya....It takes x amount of fuel to make y horsepower. It takes y horsepower to move a particular boat lets say 50 mph. So no matter if you have 700 peak horsepower or 200 if it only takes 200 to push the boat to 50 that's all your using and it only takes x amount of fuel to make 200 hp. If all she makes is 200 and 50 is topped out youre destroying that engine every time out. But 50 mph cruise in a boat capable of 75+ is a Sunday ride. Granted its not this cut and dry. Prop pitch load etc all contribute and throw the numbers off but propped right for your use fuel consumption only becomes an issue when you push the sticks to the dash. If you have no self control go small blocks and save for rebuilds lol.

Congrats on your recent sale! Beers on you...lol.

I really do understand your theory...even before the math lesson...lol. My thoughts of small blocks working for me really began with the "balls out haulin the mail runs" not being all that important to me. I get the bigger motor moving the same weight boat with greater ease at cruise rpm...thus increasing fuel economy and engine life. The right boat at the right money and I may consider big motors.

I had this big long reply for you and my login timed out and I lost it...d@#! it.

Anyway, in short, why do you think 311 to be best of the three you mentioned. Where are you guys finding these (key word) NICE boats at $15 to $23? All I find in that range is well worn or beat 700+hr BB boats that will need re-done (in&out) in the near future.

Always liked Scarab Panther and Nova Nova Spyder boats but Formula 272/311 tops the favorites list.

Wish I coulda said the same about my 402 Formula. My fountain is much more solid. The 402 hull and deck wasn't glassed together, just glued and screwed. The deck flexed very bad in rough water. Same for the helm setup. The bolt on style helm assembly would shake in rough water.

Down below, the heavy cabinetry and wood trim, became a mess. Constantly down there reattaching things after a run in rough water. Cockpit floor tank access panel broke loose, from hull flex. Severe stress cracking on the deck, wide enough to pass a quarter or nickel thru.

I wish it was more solid, because I'd still own it. One of the best looking offshore boats. I remember the 357 formulas were also known for lots of hull flex in rough water. Maybe the smaller formulas were better from the 80's.

Not just saying it because its what I own know, but i ran my fountain thru some water, that probably would have done fatal damage to the 402. I think it was too heavy for a liner style boat with a glued deck joint. No doubt the formula smoked my 38 fountain in size and amenities.

Jiffy292 on here has a near perfect 311 with 500hps, hydraulic steering bravos aluminum trailer etc asking 23

I just read all these posts and would have to agree with most regarding SBC vs. BBC (which I am sure you are tired of hearing).

Look at it this way, most of us guys who own older boats spend countless hours on the swap shop forum looking for deals on parts. It's not very often you find parts for small blocks and that can mean the difference of spending a couple hundred on the Swap shop or a couple thousand to buy new!

With regards to other boats, I would definetly look at other brands in the same era. I own an 84 scarab S-type and love the older lines! I also just went through a 4 year total strip down and rebuild and now she looks like a new boat!

I know there was some talk about the fuel tank earlier on, I had to replace mine and out of all the jobs this was probably the most frustrating! I literally had to cut the tank in half in the boat to be able to remove it because the tank actually went under the cabin bulkhead and the engine compartment bulkhead! Once it was out I had one made that was a bit shorter so it would go in easier!

You want in depth photos of what you might be up against, check out my build thread link in my signature

I am not trying to scare you but a lot of these guys make very valid points about the engine argument and this older style boats, look over your options very carefully before narrowing the optionn to one particular brand/boat!

Thanks
Jim