boost at 6250 ft altitude
01-23-2013, 03:22 AM
#21
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Phaff said that they could send a guy here who could tune my "EFI" brand injection, even said he could install two tunes and a switch to change from one to the other, one for sea level and one for Lake Tahoe. All I would have to do is change the blower pulleys each time I went to a different elevation and flick the switch.
I would go this route. $2000+ sounds cheap compared to the cost of rebuilding damaged motors. Thats not even a months gas bill for most rigs like yours run for 2-3 weekends. Tuned correctly could possibly pay for itself in gas savings, no damage to motors, drivability, headache, downtime,etc. Also if your trying to sale the boat a test ride would not be very impressive like its running now. Just an opinion I am not an expert by no means.
I would go this route. $2000+ sounds cheap compared to the cost of rebuilding damaged motors. Thats not even a months gas bill for most rigs like yours run for 2-3 weekends. Tuned correctly could possibly pay for itself in gas savings, no damage to motors, drivability, headache, downtime,etc. Also if your trying to sale the boat a test ride would not be very impressive like its running now. Just an opinion I am not an expert by no means.
Last edited by Boater8987; 01-23-2013 at 03:36 AM.
01-23-2013, 08:50 AM
#22
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Rick, I doubt that Gordy from Phaff will travel from L.A. to Tahoe and tune your boat for 2 grand. Call Brad, he's been tuning on the lake for years. No travel time so you already saved a bunch. High performance translates into expensive boating. The correct tune is way cheaper than a blown motor. When I boat at Tahoe I try to clean up the idle so I don't embarrass myself more than usual around the docks. I always seem to have a black transom to wipe down,running a bit rich is cheaper than lean. Doug
01-23-2013, 01:49 PM
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01-23-2013, 03:26 PM
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That's excellent you have a local tuner there. It might be worth a call to Keith at DynoJet Research and see if you could use a pair of their CMD piggy back units. It's a really clean, proven setup that will give you complete control of the fuel management and has a self tuning feature as well. A pair of those with WBO2's is cheaper then the software licence and cable from EFI Tech. Leaves the door open for future engine upgrades as well.
http://www.dynojetcmd.com/cmd_marine.aspx
http://www.dynojetcmd.com/cmd_marine.aspx
01-23-2013, 04:34 PM
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Thanks for the kind words HaxbySpeed. Rick, as quite a few have touched on, if you turn the boost up, you will be forcing more air in the motors, similar to what they had at sea level with your current setup. Once you get into the right part of the fuel map, it should be good. The thing is, at those elevations, your ambient pressure is way down from sea level (100-105kPa at sea level, but only about 80kPa at 6000'). If the tune isn't setup to handle this, it will run rich anytime you're not in boost (idle, part throttle cruise before you get into boost).
The Dynojet CMD Marine setup that HaxbySpeed was referring to is a piggy-back system that plugs into the fuel injectors and EFI harness to intercept the existing EFI's firing events. When the stock ECU says "turn on the injector for this long" to deliver fuel, our system reads that time and either shortens it or lengthens it to get the fuel delivery you want. It also taps into the MAP sensor so that your fuel table reference is MAP vs. RPM. While there are other options to the system, the most basic scenario is likely what someone in your position would use.
The key to tuning is to know what the air/fuel ratio is doing. To know this, you will need to install a wideband O2 sensor monitor. We also offer a kit that does this, and will send that data to the CMD Marine unit. You simply need to set the "target A/F table" to tell our unit what air/fuel ratio you wish it to run at in each area of the fuel curve. As you drive, it will tune the air/fuel ratio in "closed-loop" operation, looking at the actual air/fuel ratio, comparing it to the target and creating a "trim" to the fuel delivery. It's really that simple.
As HaxbySpeed mentioned, this system is pretty cost effective. At $599 per engine for the CMD Marine system, and $249 for the wideband setup (per engine), you can have all the ability to tune your engines yourself (or let your favorite tuner do it) for a reasonable price. If you're tight on the budget, you could choose to install the wideband on one engine, let it get tuned in, then move it to the other engine for tuning rather than installing two separate wideband setups. It all depends on what you want to do.
Take a look at our website (http://www.dynojetcmd.com/cmd_marine.aspx), or feel free to contact us at [email protected] for further information. If we can help, we'll certainly do what we can to get you going.
Good luck with your project!
The Dynojet CMD Marine setup that HaxbySpeed was referring to is a piggy-back system that plugs into the fuel injectors and EFI harness to intercept the existing EFI's firing events. When the stock ECU says "turn on the injector for this long" to deliver fuel, our system reads that time and either shortens it or lengthens it to get the fuel delivery you want. It also taps into the MAP sensor so that your fuel table reference is MAP vs. RPM. While there are other options to the system, the most basic scenario is likely what someone in your position would use.
The key to tuning is to know what the air/fuel ratio is doing. To know this, you will need to install a wideband O2 sensor monitor. We also offer a kit that does this, and will send that data to the CMD Marine unit. You simply need to set the "target A/F table" to tell our unit what air/fuel ratio you wish it to run at in each area of the fuel curve. As you drive, it will tune the air/fuel ratio in "closed-loop" operation, looking at the actual air/fuel ratio, comparing it to the target and creating a "trim" to the fuel delivery. It's really that simple.
As HaxbySpeed mentioned, this system is pretty cost effective. At $599 per engine for the CMD Marine system, and $249 for the wideband setup (per engine), you can have all the ability to tune your engines yourself (or let your favorite tuner do it) for a reasonable price. If you're tight on the budget, you could choose to install the wideband on one engine, let it get tuned in, then move it to the other engine for tuning rather than installing two separate wideband setups. It all depends on what you want to do.
Take a look at our website (http://www.dynojetcmd.com/cmd_marine.aspx), or feel free to contact us at [email protected] for further information. If we can help, we'll certainly do what we can to get you going.
Good luck with your project!
01-23-2013, 06:25 PM
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I thought it was 3% power loss for every 1000 ft rise in elevation. This would mean I have lost ~19% per motor, or 170 HP per motor - 340 HP!!!
01-23-2013, 06:27 PM
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Rick, I doubt that Gordy from Phaff will travel from L.A. to Tahoe and tune your boat for 2 grand. Call Brad, he's been tuning on the lake for years. No travel time so you already saved a bunch. High performance translates into expensive boating. The correct tune is way cheaper than a blown motor. When I boat at Tahoe I try to clean up the idle so I don't embarrass myself more than usual around the docks. I always seem to have a black transom to wipe down,running a bit rich is cheaper than lean. Doug
01-23-2013, 06:35 PM
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Thanks for the kind words HaxbySpeed. Rick, as quite a few have touched on, if you turn the boost up, you will be forcing more air in the motors, similar to what they had at sea level with your current setup. Once you get into the right part of the fuel map, it should be good. The thing is, at those elevations, your ambient pressure is way down from sea level (100-105kPa at sea level, but only about 80kPa at 6000'). If the tune isn't setup to handle this, it will run rich anytime you're not in boost (idle, part throttle cruise before you get into boost).
The Dynojet CMD Marine setup that HaxbySpeed was referring to is a piggy-back system that plugs into the fuel injectors and EFI harness to intercept the existing EFI's firing events. When the stock ECU says "turn on the injector for this long" to deliver fuel, our system reads that time and either shortens it or lengthens it to get the fuel delivery you want. It also taps into the MAP sensor so that your fuel table reference is MAP vs. RPM. While there are other options to the system, the most basic scenario is likely what someone in your position would use.
The key to tuning is to know what the air/fuel ratio is doing. To know this, you will need to install a wideband O2 sensor monitor. We also offer a kit that does this, and will send that data to the CMD Marine unit. You simply need to set the "target A/F table" to tell our unit what air/fuel ratio you wish it to run at in each area of the fuel curve. As you drive, it will tune the air/fuel ratio in "closed-loop" operation, looking at the actual air/fuel ratio, comparing it to the target and creating a "trim" to the fuel delivery. It's really that simple.
As HaxbySpeed mentioned, this system is pretty cost effective. At $599 per engine for the CMD Marine system, and $249 for the wideband setup (per engine), you can have all the ability to tune your engines yourself (or let your favorite tuner do it) for a reasonable price. If you're tight on the budget, you could choose to install the wideband on one engine, let it get tuned in, then move it to the other engine for tuning rather than installing two separate wideband setups. It all depends on what you want to do.
Take a look at our website (http://www.dynojetcmd.com/cmd_marine.aspx), or feel free to contact us at [email protected] for further information. If we can help, we'll certainly do what we can to get you going.
Good luck with your project!
The Dynojet CMD Marine setup that HaxbySpeed was referring to is a piggy-back system that plugs into the fuel injectors and EFI harness to intercept the existing EFI's firing events. When the stock ECU says "turn on the injector for this long" to deliver fuel, our system reads that time and either shortens it or lengthens it to get the fuel delivery you want. It also taps into the MAP sensor so that your fuel table reference is MAP vs. RPM. While there are other options to the system, the most basic scenario is likely what someone in your position would use.
The key to tuning is to know what the air/fuel ratio is doing. To know this, you will need to install a wideband O2 sensor monitor. We also offer a kit that does this, and will send that data to the CMD Marine unit. You simply need to set the "target A/F table" to tell our unit what air/fuel ratio you wish it to run at in each area of the fuel curve. As you drive, it will tune the air/fuel ratio in "closed-loop" operation, looking at the actual air/fuel ratio, comparing it to the target and creating a "trim" to the fuel delivery. It's really that simple.
As HaxbySpeed mentioned, this system is pretty cost effective. At $599 per engine for the CMD Marine system, and $249 for the wideband setup (per engine), you can have all the ability to tune your engines yourself (or let your favorite tuner do it) for a reasonable price. If you're tight on the budget, you could choose to install the wideband on one engine, let it get tuned in, then move it to the other engine for tuning rather than installing two separate wideband setups. It all depends on what you want to do.
Take a look at our website (http://www.dynojetcmd.com/cmd_marine.aspx), or feel free to contact us at [email protected] for further information. If we can help, we'll certainly do what we can to get you going.
Good luck with your project!
HaxbySpeed and dynoJetResearch, thank you for your advice! You have to love OSO...! I have forwarded this off to Brad Johnson and my guy in town.
New news, took compression check because one engine had more soot on back of boat than other engine, and only around one exhaust pipe. Did compression check and two cyclinders down... One was 90 the other 85. Did a leakdown test and it's not the valves.... Put a scope in and saw damage to cylinder walls. We think this was caused by disintergrated impellors when it came out of 18 months storage and overheated when son first purchased the boat and test drove it at Honker Cut Marine. Compression test taken pre purchased showed 110 PSI. Have put on 7 hours since...
Engine is already half out of boat for rebuild!
Going to do this right, then going to break engine in at Folsom Lake all day, maybe two days, then going to Lake Havasu boat show and Desert Storm!!!
01-23-2013, 06:36 PM
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Thanks for the kind words HaxbySpeed. Rick, as quite a few have touched on, if you turn the boost up, you will be forcing more air in the motors, similar to what they had at sea level with your current setup. Once you get into the right part of the fuel map, it should be good. The thing is, at those elevations, your ambient pressure is way down from sea level (100-105kPa at sea level, but only about 80kPa at 6000'). If the tune isn't setup to handle this, it will run rich anytime you're not in boost (idle, part throttle cruise before you get into boost).
The Dynojet CMD Marine setup that HaxbySpeed was referring to is a piggy-back system that plugs into the fuel injectors and EFI harness to intercept the existing EFI's firing events. When the stock ECU says "turn on the injector for this long" to deliver fuel, our system reads that time and either shortens it or lengthens it to get the fuel delivery you want. It also taps into the MAP sensor so that your fuel table reference is MAP vs. RPM. While there are other options to the system, the most basic scenario is likely what someone in your position would use.
The key to tuning is to know what the air/fuel ratio is doing. To know this, you will need to install a wideband O2 sensor monitor. We also offer a kit that does this, and will send that data to the CMD Marine unit. You simply need to set the "target A/F table" to tell our unit what air/fuel ratio you wish it to run at in each area of the fuel curve. As you drive, it will tune the air/fuel ratio in "closed-loop" operation, looking at the actual air/fuel ratio, comparing it to the target and creating a "trim" to the fuel delivery. It's really that simple.
As HaxbySpeed mentioned, this system is pretty cost effective. At $599 per engine for the CMD Marine system, and $249 for the wideband setup (per engine), you can have all the ability to tune your engines yourself (or let your favorite tuner do it) for a reasonable price. If you're tight on the budget, you could choose to install the wideband on one engine, let it get tuned in, then move it to the other engine for tuning rather than installing two separate wideband setups. It all depends on what you want to do.
Take a look at our website (http://www.dynojetcmd.com/cmd_marine.aspx), or feel free to contact us at [email protected] for further information. If we can help, we'll certainly do what we can to get you going.
Good luck with your project!
The Dynojet CMD Marine setup that HaxbySpeed was referring to is a piggy-back system that plugs into the fuel injectors and EFI harness to intercept the existing EFI's firing events. When the stock ECU says "turn on the injector for this long" to deliver fuel, our system reads that time and either shortens it or lengthens it to get the fuel delivery you want. It also taps into the MAP sensor so that your fuel table reference is MAP vs. RPM. While there are other options to the system, the most basic scenario is likely what someone in your position would use.
The key to tuning is to know what the air/fuel ratio is doing. To know this, you will need to install a wideband O2 sensor monitor. We also offer a kit that does this, and will send that data to the CMD Marine unit. You simply need to set the "target A/F table" to tell our unit what air/fuel ratio you wish it to run at in each area of the fuel curve. As you drive, it will tune the air/fuel ratio in "closed-loop" operation, looking at the actual air/fuel ratio, comparing it to the target and creating a "trim" to the fuel delivery. It's really that simple.
As HaxbySpeed mentioned, this system is pretty cost effective. At $599 per engine for the CMD Marine system, and $249 for the wideband setup (per engine), you can have all the ability to tune your engines yourself (or let your favorite tuner do it) for a reasonable price. If you're tight on the budget, you could choose to install the wideband on one engine, let it get tuned in, then move it to the other engine for tuning rather than installing two separate wideband setups. It all depends on what you want to do.
Take a look at our website (http://www.dynojetcmd.com/cmd_marine.aspx), or feel free to contact us at [email protected] for further information. If we can help, we'll certainly do what we can to get you going.
Good luck with your project!
01-23-2013, 06:56 PM
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Depends on the systems you have, but most likely you will have to have bungs welded in. CMI's for instance, have tailpipes that can be removed separately from the risers or manifolds/headers, and CMI will cut through the water jacket, drill the hole and weld the bung on the inside, then recover the water jacket to the outside of the bung for $150. Lightning headers offers this for their headers too, but only when first purchasing them. What do you have on your engines?
