More On Engine Oil
 

It's winter and thought this may be useful information .
http://www.onedirt.com/tech-stories/...he-differences

nice find....thanks

Who uses what oil??
 

Should startup a new thread on what oil is used the most by current members.

I just ordered 2 cases of Brad Penn 1 20/50 racing oil on sale now for $59. for a case of 12.

Would be interesting to see who runs what oil in their engines.

:lolhit: Do a quick search here on oil . It has been an ongoing topic of conversation for ever at OSO . Lots of GREAT information if you look . By the way , it's Amsoil Dominator or Mobil 1 V-Twin superoil's for my marine engine . :daz:

I use brad penn in my road race car and drag car. I was going to switch the boat over next year on the fresh engines.

Interesting read! But I am still confused just like before! :lolhit:

I have tried researching oil multiple times, but so much of the data is "opinion" or biased. Testing is done by the manufacture, or someone paid off or advertised somewhere for this or that.

Again, great read, and prob the most informative that I have read in a while.

All I know is tearing down engines is proof enough. And a used oil analysis is a must to know how your engine is responding to the oil you are running. I race snowmobiles and cars and I hammer these engines. I am brutal on my engines. But I know how to maintain and rebuild them. I have always used a full synthetic oil in my sleds and cars. After tearing down all my engines I have seen what oils are snake oil and what oils work. Brad Penn, Amsoil, Mobil1 and Redline are top notch depending on your bearing tolerances. You need to run the right oil based on your bearing clearances. I have not had good luck with Valvoline, Pennzoil, or Castrol. But these are good oils for regular engines just not when I was racing using these oils. I have seen bearing scaring, cylinder wall wear with these oils that I did not have with the other oils. But every engine is different and will respond better to certain oils. Cruising around at 2k - 3k rpm in a car is not that hard on a oil. 9,000 rpm on a sled and 6,000 rpm in a car or a boat is a different story.

All I can say is that until you build and tear down your own engines and document the wear you find, is the only proof that I go by. People talk out there a** and have no real experience with engines at all.

I ran a car in a demo derby that had hole in the oil pan during the first heat and it went through two more full heats. I used Mobile1 in that engine. No oil and no oil pressure. The tranny died but the the engine still was running fine when my car was disabled because of the tranny failure not because of the engine and no oil pressure. The engine temp gauge was pegged but it was still running.

I still use Mobile1 in my truck and my cars today. But I use the high mileage version because it is a better oil formulation than the other types Mobil1 offers.

Where?

http://www.buyracingparts.com/lubric...50---case.html

http://matrixsyntheticoils.com/store...ulti_oils.html

Second link has cheaper shipping

Mobil 1 V twin has high ZDDP levels.... I am going to switch to it.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf

Where?

www.deerfieldmachine.com

Shipping is a flat $ 7.00

I run brad penn as well. Very good luck with it. I get it here. http://www.carshopinc.com/advanced_s...d+penn&x=0&y=0

No shipping cuz i pick up in store :lolhit:

would be $80 a case for me on the cheaper site above to have shipped to me. good deal per case but shipping blows.

Amsoil Dominator 10w30 in a 700hp NA 524 and 75w110 Extreme Gear in my drive. All Amsoil tests are certified, they're worth looking at.

Lock at mobil 1 racing 0W-50. http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...ing_0W-50.aspx

It has more zinc and phosphorus than V twin see bottom of page. http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf

List price is 16.33 QUART found it for 13.07 QUART. http://www.sparktecmotorsports.com/9...tm_content=pla

i have 10 qt pans,so 20 times 14.07=261.40,plus tax and 20 bucks for 2 filters,and i change every 12 hrs.il stick with the brap penn 20w50 that cost under 6 bucks a qt,and has been working for me for years,just my opinion.

Running Pennzoil 25w50 racing oil this year. If you like ZDDP, look into it.

4.49 per qt at oreillys

Ageed
 

I agree 100% too.

Hey Mike, how is your day?
I'm saying this in a nice way. If you change your oil more often and pull motors more often for wear parts how are you saving money or time? If you are paying tax on oil something's wrong or your at walmart. They are the only place that charges tax on oil that I know of. Now that welmart taxes oil everyone will do it. Thanks walmart for lowering our standard of living as we save money and live better. Sorry for the hijack.:helmet:

I had no intentions of getting invloved in this oil discussion period. However, I am from MA. watching the snow fall and I guess fall and fall some more. So, I was getting bored. If I may be so bold as to comment about price. I know in this economy we are all being hit. But, one serious afternoon of boating cost $200 in fuel and yet a lot of the post here tell me you don't want to spend the same $200 for an oil change that last, lets say 6 or more boating days! How much do your engines cost? Now I'm not a chemist or an engine builder, but certain things are just facts. If your engine has no issues and is being run under "normal" conditions than really almost any good quality oil will be ok. However, our boat engines see a much tougher life than an automotive engine and I doubt would be considered "normal" operating conditions. Our engines are under power all the time and usually being run at higher RPM's. So, with that said there really is a good case that can be made for using synthetic oil. Synthetic oil is not pumped out of the ground. It has NO impurities. It is made in a lab. I made this example on OSO once before. Let's assume you have a 1 foot square piece of glass. Go outside and try to find 50 pebbles as equal in size as you possibly can. Place them on the table and put the glass on top. Looking through the glass how many spots do you think will make contact? Probably 1/4 maybe 1/3. That is a mineral based oil. Now put 50 marbles on the table and place the glass on top. There will be 100% contact. That's synthetic oil. Your bearings are facing that same exact scenario. I don't know about you, but I would prefer that my bearing surface is completely in touch with the oil. Probably the big advantages, I would think, are a much better bonding of the oil to the surfaces being protected as well as a broader temperature range. Oh, by the way Brad Penn is a partial synthetic oil which is why it is cheaper than the synthetics. Not sure what partial means exactly.

Interesting...how long have you been running 10w30 in that engine? I was thinking of running 10w40 synt. in my 496/Whipple,since it's closed cooling,and i run a 120F
thermostat...just a thought....

benjen, just so you are in the loop on synthetics, Group III synthetics are pumped out of the ground, they are petroleum oils, they are not made in a lab like Group IV or Group V.

Ken

MMMMMMMMM. I think I disagree with that. I believe that synthetic oil, at least 100% synthetic, is made from a base oil with an add package of many different chemicals. The base oil is actually a derivitive of natural gas. I certainly don't know how you get from natural gas to a base oil, but they do. There are of course several grades of this base oil.

Panther.. you don`t have sales tax where you live?

I posted in general discussion "what oil does Mercury recommend for their 1350" I guess all they run is Mercury 25-40 blend. I used to use Mobil 1 20-50 (never had a lubrication problem) when availability went away I switched to Brad Penn. But I think I'm seeing a drop in oil pressure when hot that I never had before?
If Mercury 25-40 is good enough for their 1350 should be fine for my 1150's??

Close,
It is more than an additive package that makes petroleum based oil a synthetic, it is the refinement process. Refining ground based oil multiple times removes the impurities and creates more uniform molecules.

Yes, I do understand that. I was just trying to generalize my reply of the oil was not crude oil pumped out of the ground. That 100% synthetic oil was not just a little fairy dust added to the same stuff that has been on the market for generations.

Reading says it all.
 

One of these??

http://www.mercurymarine.com/parts-a...nd-mercruiser/

or

http://www.mercurymarine.com/parts-a.../blend-verado/

seeing that you think "reading says it all" Why don't you read some more?

The troubling thing in your information, is the statement that synthetic oil does not come from the ground. The majority of synthetic oils are a refine product that comes from the ground.

One of the most popular synthetic oils comes from the ground, as do most oils that you buy off the shelf http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...Motor_Oil.aspx

:479: First of all I never said that it comes from the ground any where in this thread.

I also know that A TRUE full synthetic oil is not made from a crude oil distilling process or refinining prosess. I have spoken with a AMSoil factory rep when he came out to showcase the new Dominator oil I use in my race sleds. I have personnaly tested the flash point of three samples of oil from other vendors right out of the bottle. Pensoil racing, Castrol and Klotz racing oil for two stroke engines. The test is simple, put the oil on the stainless steel plate and put a torch under it. Anyone who knows oil that a crude based oil with burn and eventually ignite. Guess what Pensoil , Castrol and Klotz did start burning somewhat quicky. The Amsoil lasted almost twice as long. All oil is engineered!! They all add the anti wear and detergent additives to it. Synthetics use a base compound. Some oil companies use crude oil mix with their Synthetic bases and compounds, that are refined into this "Semi Synthetic oil". That is why it is called a semi synthetic. Such as Brad Penn Grade 1 oil.

With EGT temps hitting around 1300 f in my sled I need a oil that is the absolute best out there for it. Amsoil is it.. Period. In my boat I use Brad Penn because it has proven by racing engine shops. Engine builders for Dirt Track, Circle Track and drag racing engines, use it, and some use it for multiple races too. Its a semi synthetic but it flat out works. Dirt track and circle track and drag racing are not easy on engines.

I know my oils that I use in my engines and how they will perform. And the UOA from the lab backs up what I already knew from the start, and how it ran in my engines from the last oil change. You need to run a oil that works for you and your budget. Then get it tested after you have run for a while under your typical driving conditions that you will normally subject your boat to, after a regular oil change interval get what ever oil you are using tested. Only the UOA test will show if you oil is working well for your engine and how much life" protection additives " were still left in the oil when you changed it.

Just saying you have to read between the lines.

I think his comments are pointed at me as I did say synthetic oil does not come from the ground. I DID say it is made from natural gas. I DID say it was not made from crude. Yes, natural gas does come from the ground..........you are right. I think that the readers knew what I was saying. But, again you are right in that natural gas comes from the ground. The important thing here is that many guys just don't know the difference. In a simple way, a little bit of educating without a masters degree in chemistry, is all that toyo321 and myself were trying to offer.

The oil arguments always make me laugh, marketing is more a factor than anything. I happen to be employed by one of the largest oil manufactures in the US, my company also owns one of the few oil testing labs in the US.

Base oil quality is no longer defined by just three simple categories consisting of conventional, semi-synthetic, and synthetic. With the introduction of new processes and feed stocks over the past dozen years, we now have numerous base oils grades and blends thereof, resulting in a continuum of base oil quality, such as:

Grp I
Grp I & II blend
Grp I & III blend
Grp II
Grp II & III blend
Grp II+
Grp III
Grp III & IV blend
Grp III+
Grp III & IV & V blend
Grp III+ & IV & V blend
Grp IV & V blend

While the exact quality order of such base oil selections is debatable and dependent on component grade and ratios, the point is that the quality steps are now so small as to make labels such as semi-synthetic and synthetic difficult if not impossible to place. The industry chose to draw a line between Grp II and Grp III in defining “synthetic”, but the difference is merely a single VI point, and therefore meaningless from a performance standpoint.

Certainly there is a meaningful difference between the low end and high end of the spectrum, such as Grp I vs a Grp IV/V blend, but the difference between adjacent levels, and really even levels that are three, four, or five apart, is easily blurred by the additive system.

Hence, the great debate over “synthetic” versus “true synthetic” is dead. The use of the word synthetic today only signifies that the base oil blend leans toward the higher end of quality continuum, and translating that further into finished oil performance becomes a stretch.

You are better served concentrating on specifications and approvals rather than base oils for estimating oil performance. Difference in wear rarely shows up in engine testing labs, in fact other conditions that would cause the engine to fail regardless are used to get the oil temps hot enough to show a difference in a Group II to a Group IV.

Has any one here ever heard of an engine builder say "If you used brand X oil instead of brand Y oil we wouldn't have had this problem" Seriously, it doesn't happen.

Marketing

NO, not at all. semi synthetic base stocks are made by the coumpounder/blender of the oil. You cannot go to Exxon/Mobile and by a semi synthetic base stock.

This might be the case for a Group III, but it is not the case for a Group IV or V. The add pak has nothing to do if the oil is synthetic or not.

benjen, please read my last response to you. Group III oils are petroleum.......marketing calls them synthetic.

True synthetics that are made from alcohols, nat gas, etc are not considered petroleum oils.

You know guys as usual these threads start to turn. I made a point on Friday as to why synthetic is better than crude. And why that reason is a pretty good reason to consider in a boat engine. Maybe not your typical cruiser, but certainly in a go fast engine. I believe the above example, although maybe not exactly what takes place is pretty darn close. You can diss that explanation with your chemical background all you want. But, to the layman, which I am by the way......I'm not holding back and all of a sudden going to satrt laying some big stats on you. This was a simple and accurate description of the difference between crude and synthetic.

You need to run a oil that works for you and your budget. Then get it tested after you have run for a while under your typical driving conditions that you will normally subject your boat to, after a regular oil change interval get what ever oil you are using tested. Only the UOA test will show if your oil is working well for your engine and how much life" protection additives " were still left in the oil when you changed it.

Just buy the best oil you can afford and change it a couple times to see how it looks and if you can get it tested. But yes any oil today that meets API standards of today will work okay in your boat if you change it on a regular basis. Even if its not Synthetic. Synthetic can go much longer between oil changes.

Hey ICDEDPPL.
Yes I do 11% and 6% for alcoholic beverages at the state store. No tax on oil or gas, I'm not a lawyer but it looks like oil is taxed ONE time only in this state. UNLESS U SHOP AT CHINAMART

Gas stations here do charge 3 to 6 cents or more for 9/10 of a gallon of fuel if you use your credit card.
Saw a lady from out of town at the grocery store and she could not understand why she was taxed for food. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_t..._United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_ta..._United_States

Does anyone use Royal Purple in their engines? What do you know about it. Good or bad?

And, in the end, THAT is what it all really comes down to!