[QUOTE=blue thunder;3881896]Mr. Blue Thunder, Thank you for that response. This tech. section is for sharing good information, to help others. If someone is questioned about their comment or thoughts, give them a opportunity to answer your question.
I would feel, different about it; if you were trying to always sell something, or promote yourself.

Mark, they torqued the rod bolts to Eagle's specs. Did not use a stretch gauge. I was planning to use a stretch gauge when I install them, and I am going to do exactly what you suggested - measure and record the length of each bolt, and then do a follow up measurement after they are stretched to spec using the gauge. This will be done at the same time I check rod bearing clearances. Of course I will be using the ARP thread lubricant. Any bolts that show more than 0.001 longer will be considered bad and replaced. Does that sound reasonable?

Once the bolts are stretched, meaning from Eagle, or the person that torqued them during the engine build will make no difference on what they read , you will not have a accurate length. As I said; those bolts will not even measure the same length NEW. What I am telling you is; when I receive, new rods; I use the stretch gauge, set it to zero, remove gauge, loosen bolt, slide stretch gauge over bolt, then read how many thousands the gauge indicates. This is telling me; if the rod mfg, set the bolt stretch to .005 or .006. This is only for the simple reason either for me to know; if the stretch was low and I want .006 or they made a mistake. I will have the rod torqued properly, check it against the rod gauge on the hone for trueness and re-hone it if needed.
A Eagle rod, is what it is; it's not a cheap item nor is it junk. I have used plenty of them with no issues; but you must check sizing of the big end and the bushing end. Alot of times the bolts are under torqued, if you increase bolt stretch, they will distort, wrist pins are usually alittle tight, but the bushing material is more forgiving than a Ampco 45 bushing. When you buy $1200.00 rods with special bolts, better bushings, pin oiling, that cost goes into what you receive in the end, not saying I do not inspect rods from Oliver, Carrillo, I do; they just do not need any touch up work.
If you are worried about the bolts being over stretch, you can usually tell by the way the torque wrench pulls before you reach the max stretch. If it pulls easy; like the bolt is a rubber band, with no increase in tension; I would say; it's over stretched. If the guy used a torque wrench at the torque setting they gave, I am willing to bet he didn't over do it. You will be surprised to see what your torque wrench has to go to for maxing out the stretch number. Sorry for the rambling on!

I'm not particularly worried that they were overstretched. I'm slightly concerned that if they were understretched from the factory and I stretch them a bit more that the bore could distort. I'll have to go back and look at my old rod bearings again to see if there is any evidence of bore distortion, but i don't recall seeing any. Would I be able to detect the bore distortion with my bore gauge?

At this point maybe the best move would be to torque them to the value that was used with the first build. Thoughts?

Yes, you can with the bore gauge. Using the Sunnen AG 300 on the hone is just more precision and convenient. Most of the distortion, will be at the parting line. Just remember; if you check the rod or main bearing torqued into a perfect round bore, the bearing is always going to have more clearance as you come towards the parting lines, otherwise the oil would not flow properly around the surface and flush. Bearing crush, and the bearings back contact surface, with the bore is what we are trying to achieve with a smooth true surface.
I have seen rod caps cut on a belt sander, bearing bores oversized on rods to give oil clearance instead of using an HX bearing and this is something someone did on a NEW set of Manley rods to compensate for the cranks rod pins being oversize, the main bores were over sized using Std H bearings instead of HX. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID!!!!!! Don't feel bad about not knowing this, it's like going to the doctor, you are putting your trust in someone that is suppose to be a professional, at their job. Charge for test that are not needed, perform surgery, take out the wrong thing and leave tools in you. You get sick after the surgery, bring you back in again, and charge you, then blame it on you.

are you saying that you are using a stretch number based on the preloaded length as the rod comes out of the box from the mfg minus the free length of the bolts when you disassemble it ? you are presuming the mfg is sending you the rods " torqued " to spec ? and that your observed stretch is the true stretch spec for that bolt ? all my stuff came with that spec in the documentation that came with the rods and i never assumed that the rods coming out of the box were anything other than just assembled to keep the parts from falling apart during shipping...

beyond that , you imply that your bolts change dimensions from one assembly to the next... if this were true then they are being strained ( stretched) beyond their elastic limit ( yield ) and are effectively scrap once that happens. on a good bolt , propery stretched to its correct preload, you should be able to do that essentially as many times as you care to and have that free dimension repeat plus or minus nothing. all parts like this have a cyclic service life and you are going to see different dimensions start occuring on bolts nearing the end of their service life as they yield at lower strain levels but new stuff, properly lubed and stretched should be repeatable every single time. if they don't then something is very wrong.

Maybe, my explanation was not as clear as I meant to say.
Lets start over; I have never received rods from Oliver, Eagle, Compstar, Carrillo, Crower, that the bolts were backed off, after final honing to size. The rods are sized with the torque load or bolt stretch applied. Example; if the stretch is .0055-.0064, how do you know what it is; if you do not measure the bolt before and after separation or are you just relying the spec. sheet ? This is something I check; go check at rod sized at .005 stretch then take it to .006, than check on a precision rod gauge and let me know if; there is a deflection. Or take a rod that the bolt was not stretched to even .005, hone it; than stretch it to .005 or .006 and see how the deflection is. That was my only point.
Dimension wise on the bolts meaning O.A.L. never stretched say; 8740, L-19, ARP 2000 take your stretch gauge zero it, or use a ball micrometer, see if all the bolts measure the same exact length.
I think your other question was bolt yield? Yes; the rod bolts will become easier to reach there stretch or final torque setting after the bolts were cycled about 3 times. I think; the non stretch gauge method from ARP installing new rod bolts was cycle the bolts 3 times like on a 3/8 or 7/17 style bolt that is pressed in then you tighten the nut, if you are not using a stretch gauge.
When I was speaking of dimensions; it was in reference to Budman II, main bearing caps. When we line hone the block and you want to bring in the sizing on the bores and say; 1 or 2 mains are close to size, we back off the torque load, than re torque them again. It always seems that the bore size will tighten up once you break the bolts loose than retorque them of course this is true if the bolts are over or under torqued. You can check this; take a main cap, torque it, 3 different times and see if you come up with the same exact measurement.
I hope this clarifies, my statements. If you have anymore questions about my statement, please feel free to ask. I am not a metallurgical engineer, I was only expressing my experience from the last 23 yrs of business.

i am just surprised you trust the preload as delivered. seems to me that thats just another way to build on top of someone elses mistake. if the spec sheet says .0045 stretch, i just backed them off, re lubed them, stretched them what the defined number was and made my measurments. and that worked for me for better than 20 years as well.

stevesxm,
If Iam; checking the pre-load. Where does, trusting it come into the picture and or building on top of someone else's mistake If you want to back up your bolt stretch; that's is up to you. If I wanted the bolt at the lower # of the bolt stretch, I would leave it. If I want the bolt stretch @ almost the max. I will set it there and check the bore run-out.

If; I have made a false statement about bolt stretch or bore dimension. Please inform me, for I am not following the point you are putting forward to me.

Mer Perf, don't let stevexm get you going. He likes to debate and you will surely tire before he does. There really is no point and you will just end up POed for no reason. Pretty much what I was alluding to earlier. I surely appreciate you sharing your insight into the machine work tricks of the trade and would like to see it continue. A word to the wise is sufficient...