FlyFast

Back in 1998 I tried to find fuel without alcohol in phoenix. Mesa, gilbert and tempe to be exact. Airplane fuel was the only that I could find without alcohol. It has been clearly stated on the pumps that alcohol is in our fuel. It even says that the amount of alcohol is different for the summer and the winter. It is on every pump. With this being common knowledge and posted where does arizona speed expect you to buy fuel for your boat. Where did they build this boat to be used?

Last year I got ripped off by one of the oldest motor shops in mesa. It was clearly the case of using labor from south of the border. It was only a couple of grand so it wasn't worth my time fighting over it.

This year I purchased a closed cooling kit from seattle to find out when the kit did not fit that it had been shipped with defective riser gaskets. It cost me my labor to install new riser gaskets.

Aeromotive should recall their epoxy fuel pumps. Az speed owes you 13K + for their 7.50 labor.

There is too much shoddy workmanship going on boats. I appreciate hearing your stories and saving me my money by never taking my boat to az speed. I hope you are sucessful in your lawsuit against az speed and aeromotive. That is the only way aeromotive will recall their epoxy pumps and save some other boater the expense of a new engine. It is the right thing to do.

Good Luck and Thanks

blown formula

These were NOT crate motors!!! Stock Mercruiser 454 Mag EFI's.
Two them side by side!!! one goes the other does not!
Both Aeromotive pumps.....one set of injectors plugged up, and one failed pump....gee- both on the same engine!!! Guess what the problem is???? The pump!!! Not rings that are not clearanced correctly.

blown formula

& now.... the continuing saga....... installed the new/rebuilt Aeromotive pump.....set initial pressure on regulator. checked for leaks...... hauled the boat to my mechanic to start it and set the initial timing...... hooked up the water, it fired up immediately....sounded great....it ran for maybe one minute and died......restarted...same thing. Started to really watch the fuel pressure gauge while it ran....... the longer it ran, the lower the pressure got. Reset the pressure to 45#,......same thing. pressure dropped gradually to 22# and engine died. We clamped off the return line from the regulator to tank. Now all fuel is forced to the fuel rail. Same thing.
Swapped pumps from #1 to #2 engine. Used everything in the fuel chain from #2 as before when it died......except the pump supply line (could not reach that to change). Turn ignition on and regulator pressure went to over 80# !!! Reset the pressure to 40# and started the engine........it worked great. Even the initial timing was perfect . ..... Back to Aeromotive again.....i'll tell you about that next post....

Nordicflame

iTrader: (4)

Isn't that just wonderful. I just took mine to UPS yesterday.
Please let me know what you find out so that I can drop a call on them!!!

Offshore Addiction

hey blown formula,i realize these were not crate motors,which in all acuality these are crate motors....GM shuts there production line down 45 days a year to produce mercruisers engine line,inwhich mercruiser installs cams and intakes only,and of course a little black paint....now anybody that has delt with prochargers to the extent that i have will know they are not what they are all cracked up to be....but are very good units with the proper engine work completed.....if your fuel presure dropped to 35# you are correct you may have started to lean the complete fuel rail,but in all those facts you forgot or werent informed that mercruisers rev limiters are now controlled with injector pattern not ign timing anymore which means at 5150 rpms(unless az speed has changed them in your computers)your injectors stop adding fuel,to the air ratio... that your motor should not have leaned out,only posibly started to miss a little,or by the problems you are having with your pump,just plain stalled.....now your motor temp not going over 110 degrees does not mean the cyl temps were at that temp.....with chargers even in a negative boost,your cyl temps were probally double that,hense the detonation in a middle cyl....now beleive it or not part of the detonation problem may have been because you werent hard into the throttle....timing cranked up to and your tps only halfway into the fuel.....now i dont know what your original problem for taking the boat to az speed but you may want to research your original problem making sure it was not the same you have now...meaning somebody fixed the motor not the problem...now had your motor been clearenced properly you would now only have a fuel pump/contaminated injector problem....as per your exhaust problem,wow ....but an investment on your part with better exhaust such as stainless marine and youll never have to worry about corroded manifolds.....ive been installing these for ever and only had one problem with a pair that were over six years old,and brownie and jerry stepped up and took care of it for 85 bucks.....now i apologize if i upset you with my first post, but at the start of the racing season CRE did the overhual on my sealed 500 EFI.(being ther the only people aloud to touch these motors....) and after running wide open with the motor dropping from 5350 rpms to 4300 rpms and jumping back up to 5350 and so on,it turned out when they had the motor on the dyno the manuel pump diaphram went out and they replaced it. now what the problem turned out to be was the diphram parts got past the second fiter and contaminated the injectors....sound kinda similar dont it.....but with a little work it was taken care of,with no damage to the engine....why because the motor (tps) was in wide open position,timing cranked up and fuel cranked up...one of the problems with charging a stock motor or a GM HP out of the crate is they are very tempermental,the slightest little problem and ther back on the stand.....clearence the motor correctly and this will stop.....good luck on your venture i was only trying to help..........

blown formula

Hey Offshore Addiction... I am not upset. The original reason it went back to AZ Speed was because of an intercooler that leaked & injested water into the engine.
You do bring up a couple of points though, like, if the water temp is 110, how can the center cylinders be twice that??? Are we taking actual cylinder wall temp or temp of the water around the center cylinders??? or what/how/etc ?????
As far as the rev limiters, I know about cutting the fuel above 5100rpm......my engine ran a max of 4700 before.... and on the days precedeing this incident the engine never saw 4000. The dieing of the engine was at IDLE, not at high speed & it runs fine with a different pump installed.
The conclusion I have drawn is the original pump dumped trash into the fuel rail and leaned out a couple of injectors .... with #5 being the worst. We were able to actually see the crude in the injectors.
As for this engine dieing at idle now, Merc perscribes 37# of pressure minimum......and when the pressure is up at that level or above it works/runs fine now. When the pressure drops to 20#, it cannot supply enough fuel for the injectors to work.
I will find out Friday night!!

Offshore Addiction

good luck friday,your answer to the cyl temp....super chargers compress air,which im guessing you know,in compressing the air creates greater compression in the cyl,which in turn creates heat and lots of it....thats why you dont supercharge high compression motors unless you are compensating with alot cooler fuel....thats why procharger,B&M, recomend pulling your thermostat.to decrease engine temp...and you are only reading water temp on the final leg of the water before leaving the motor.....the only way to catch these problems before hand is to put pyro meters on your exhaust....which will inform you of a noticeable change in your exh temp.....usually just or as detonation starts to happen.... oh, and one thing i forgot to inform you is you should try running a 89 octane instead of 93 as per 89 is a cleaner and truer octane.(less additives to make it) as far as finding fuel with less oxiginating and less alchohol additives try making sure you by fuel in less populated areas,they put these additives in there to have cleaner burning fuels in highly populated areas.....carbonmonoxide.....

Pure Energy

Offshore Addiction

could you elaborate some on this statement.

"now anybody that has delt with prochargers to the extent that i have will know they are not what they are all cracked up to be....but are very good units with the proper engine work completed."


I have 2 procharged carbed 502 crates, balanced and blueprinted, inconel exhaust valves, felpro blue head gaskets, heads have been studded, roller rockers, comp cams valve springs. Max rpm so far has been 5300 with 32" bravo 1 props @ just over 6 lbs. of boost. I would like to know what is on your mind.

Blown Formula, sorry to change the subject, I too have the Aeromotive pumps and am thinkng of upgrading.

blown formula

I do buy my fuel in an EXTREMELY remote location. This town has two gas stations about 400 yards apart.....and that the limits of the town. two gas stations, 2 cafes', 2 grocery stores/convience stores....one marina. That's it!!

Pyrometers.... I've got them in both engines. but the one in the melted engine did not work. I was also trying to get that to work before it melted. I have replaced the thermocouple in the manifold with no result (except the melted engine). I have now also replaced the dual gauge.....and we will see what happens.

Now on the octane rating & what to buy....
89 octane does burn cooler than 91 or 93 octane, I agree. But it also has a lower "flash" point than 91 or 93. Is this part of why high octane is suggested???? to prevent detonation/preignition???


Ken, I thought this was an "educational forum" so it's ok. I (we) can use this as a learning tool !! Ask away!! You may ask something that I did not think of or I assumed I already knew. The only bad question is the one you don't ask!!

Offshore Addiction

hey ken,sounds like youve pretty much covered your basics! as long as your cyls were clearenced properly to alow for the expansion of your pistons and rings,make sure you run an extra filter in front of your carb,make sure you know how many GPH your fuel seperator filter is capable of,and id also reccomend to go with weldon pumps, or make sure there right....if your running the stock cams that came in your 502 crates thats fine,but make sure you run the longest pipe on your exhaust that you boats capable of handling,seen these cams revert water on stock lenght pipes....your RPM range is better than blown formulas,that takes the stress off your crank shaft and allows the motor to freewheel......one question though? are those gen V or gen VI...GM did have a small problem with soft crankshafts in the V motors and they like to crap them after a couple of hundred hours,they usually get a nice half inch bend in them....other than that fixen boats and racin um is the only thing on my mind!!!!!!!