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-   -   250 vs 420 blower (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/304747-250-vs-420-blower.html)

MILD THUNDER 11-14-2013 11:07 AM


Originally Posted by rmbuilder (Post 4026848)
Mike,

The cylinder heads were box stock AFR 325 cc with the CNC chamber port option. This head is the base casting for the 335 fully CNC head with the exception of the porting program run only through the combustion chamber, seat, throat, and bowl area.

Ultimately the decision was made to go these heads due to the fact that I had seen them support well in excess of 1100 hp in prior testing. The efficiency of this exhaust port is certainly key in handling the volume of spent charge at outputs of exceeding 1000 hp. The fact was, at some point we would run out of blower before we would run out of cylinder head. While there may have been some incremental gains to be had by expanding the cylinder head program, given budgetary considerations, and that the target 1000 hp was obtained, the “bang for the buck quotient” for this package is right on the money.

To reiterate what MT has already mentioned, the Imco manifolds exceeded everyone’s expectations. Given the capability of the selected head easily surpassed the target for the project, the additional resources available from utilizing this head were diverted toward valvetrain optimization.

The valve size is the standard 2.300” intake with the SS exhaust swapped out for the proprietary 1.880” Ferrea tulip valve. The spring package was also optimized toward stabilizing the dynamic mass of the valvetrain. The fuel curve is confirmation the valvetrain was very “quiet”.

Bob

Excellent info Bob. Things you mention, explain, and have spent so much R&D on, is on another level, in a positive way. So many things go into a successful build, and the HP is what it is. I guess what I am saying, a lot of people say "I wanna make 1000HP", but overlook the key ingredients that need to go into the recipe to make it all work, and work well. You can say "I want a nice bowl of Pasta". You can go get some noodles and ketchup and meet your goals, or you can spend an entire sunday making good homemade Italian gravy, and have a much better product, at no more expense.

Twenty years ago getting a 1000HP marine engine, to last 200-300 hours, was UNHEARD of. With todays product, and KNOWLEDGE, one can successfully accomplish this goal, but one needs to understand the little things cannot be overlooked. The days of generalizing and slapping engines together should be over, but aren't. Most are quick to judge another builder, suggesting things like "Im not impressed with those numbers" or "I could have made 100HP more". Well, I say, come talk after a couple hundred hours of hard running, and we'll see who had more fun. Not 10, 20, 30, or 40 hours.

I have a lot more respect for the 1000HP engine that lives for 200+ hours, then the 1300HP engine that doesn't make it through a poker run. Many times at these events, you can decipher who has the street racer backround, and who has the marine engine backround. The results speak for themselves on the water. The rest is just bench racing.

By the way, enjoyed our conversation yesterday. With as much negativity around here lately, its always nice to talk with someone who is a great asset to the boating community. If everyone worked together, instead of slinging $hit at each other, we'd all have a better experience!

mike tkach 11-14-2013 05:07 PM


Originally Posted by rmbuilder (Post 4026848)
Mike,

The cylinder heads were box stock AFR 325 cc with the CNC chamber port option. This head is the base casting for the 335 fully CNC head with the exception of the porting program run only through the combustion chamber, seat, throat, and bowl area.

Ultimately the decision was made to go these heads due to the fact that I had seen them support well in excess of 1100 hp in prior testing. The efficiency of this exhaust port is certainly key in handling the volume of spent charge at outputs of exceeding 1000 hp. The fact was, at some point we would run out of blower before we would run out of cylinder head. While there may have been some incremental gains to be had by expanding the cylinder head program, given budgetary considerations, and that the target 1000 hp was obtained, the “bang for the buck quotient” for this package is right on the money.

To reiterate what MT has already mentioned, the Imco manifolds exceeded everyone’s expectations. Given the capability of the selected head easily surpassed the target for the project, the additional resources available from utilizing this head were diverted toward valvetrain optimization.

The valve size is the standard 2.300” intake with the SS exhaust swapped out for the proprietary 1.880” Ferrea tulip valve. The spring package was also optimized toward stabilizing the dynamic mass of the valvetrain. The fuel curve is confirmation the valvetrain was very “quiet”.

Bob

thanks bob,i appricate you posting it,good information as usual.

bigboat28 11-17-2013 03:01 PM

Between a b&m 250 and a weiand 256, is one better than the other?

mmb 11-17-2013 06:14 PM


Originally Posted by rmbuilder (Post 4026210)
Attached is our data sheet representing a 548/420 mega blower build sheet for OSO member Carlton Johnson. The build was completed and tested in June 2013 and has just concluded its first complete season in a Daytona 25.

Bob

Hey Bob the cams you did for me made 925hp on pump gas with only 6 pounds of boost with the 420 blower! (540 ci, Dart Heads) We spun it to 6500 to see what it would do and it made 975hp! Engines purr at idle like a kitten and dock like they are fuel injected!

I know wasn't after max power with this combo but the engines are user friendly just as I requested!!

Thanks again,
Mark from Florida

welfare racing 11-17-2013 06:20 PM


Originally Posted by bigboat28 (Post 4025237)
Welfare.......how did your motors run with your 250's on them? What motors were they on and how many hp did you have?


stroked 540's 750 hp, put a 382 formula into the triple didgets

mustangmark 11-19-2013 10:57 PM

Call Nickerson Performance and have them set up your carb or carbs! They are pricey but well worth the money spent! I ran a Nickerson denominator on my 502 with a b&m 250 and it ran flawlessly! Idled great and had grea maneuvering around the docks. I run a c&s blow thru carb now but changed the to a procharger m3. It may hurt to spend the money but knowing that the fuel curve at wot is close and not lean (with out an o2 sensor), etc... is a huge relief! I run a cam from Bob as well and it was a great investment! He not only knows his stuff but is fantastic to work with!

bigboat28 11-24-2013 07:24 AM

What is a better set up on a 250, twin carbs or a single Nickerson 1050 and why? Is there a hp difference?

MILD THUNDER 11-24-2013 04:53 PM


Originally Posted by bigboat28 (Post 4031930)
What is a better set up on a 250, twin carbs or a single Nickerson 1050 and why? Is there a hp difference?

I prefer the twin carb setup. The fuel distribution with a single carb on the 250 is crappy. The front cylinders will be much leaner than the rears. They made a updated single carb plate, that moved the carb forward a bit, which helps a little. But twin carbs do much better for fuel distribution.

abones 11-24-2013 05:05 PM


Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER (Post 4032152)
I prefer the twin carb setup. The fuel distribution with a single carb on the 250 is crappy. The front cylinders will be much leaner than the rears. They made a updated single carb plate, that moved the carb forward a bit, which helps a little. But twin carbs do much better for fuel distribution.

+1 with Mild on the carbs, plus another advantage of two smaller carbs over I large carb is that with the smaller carbs you will have better docking manners, and low end throttle response. I had a single 1071 cfm then changed to two 660s and it woke up that motor FWIW


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