NEW 502 blocks
 

Any one have and pro's con's on these NEW 502 blocks from MKHammer Speed and marine.Seems like a great price and you can use manual fuel pumps. JOHN SR






MKHammer Speed and marine
New design Big Block made for marine applications and more designed for MKhammer. A Gen VI block with a mechanical fuel pump Heavy duty siamese 9.8 deck has a 4.500 bore will accept any Gen 5 or 6 one piece rear main seal crank. With a mechanical fuel pump boss machined in the block there is no need for an electric fuel pump. This versatile block can be used in any big block application If you have a Gen V or VI 454 or 502 your Crank, Rods Flywheel, Balancer, Cam lifter, Cylinder heads will bolt directly on. If you have a gen V you will need a gen 6 timing cover. This block is machined for dog bone retainers and spider tray OEM Roller Hydraulic lifters. or GEN IV / V flat tappet lifter and cam application will also work. You can also use + .300 tie bar roller hydraulic or solid lifters
4.00 stroke crank X 4.500 bore = 509 c.i. and will not affect stock 502 ecm programing with flat top pistons.
4.250 stroke X 4.500 bore = 540 c.i and will support over 1200 HP with forged internal rotating assembly.
4.375 stroke X 4600 bore = 600 c.i. with forged internal rotating assembly.
Calls have been overwhelming for bare 502 blocks. Many have a good engines except for the block so here is the answer.
Material: Superior Iron Alloy
Bore: 4.500”,
Bore & stroke: 4.600 X 4.375 (max recommended)
Cam bearing bore ID: 2.120” Std.
Cam bearings: Coated, grooved, w/3 oil holes PN# 32210030
Cam bearing O.S. +.010”, +.020”, +.030”
Cam bearing press: .002”
Camshaft position: Standard
Cam Drive: Timing chain, Gear drive & Belt drive
Cam Plug: Standard BBC 2.215” diameter
Cubic Inch: 555" (Max Recommended)
Cylinder Wall Thickness: .300” min @ 4.560” bore
Deck Height: 9.800”
Deck Thickness: Adequate for all applications
Dist. Tap Hole Valley: None
Fuel Pump Boss: Mechanical pump provision
Fuel Pump Pushrod: Std. BBC
Freeze Plugs: Std. Press in cup plugs 1 5/8 “dia.
Head Bolt Pattern: Std. BBC Bolt Pattern
Inside Head Studs: Yes PN# 64210240 (Not included)
Lifter Bores: BBC .8427” - .8437” + .300 Taller Gen V, VI style
Main bearing size: Std. BBC
Main bearing bore: 2.937” – 2.938”
Main caps: Ductile Iron (Sportsman) 4 bolt
Oil system: Wet or Dry Sump - Main Priority Oiling
Oil Galley, main: Stepped, 9/16” – 1/2” – 7/16”
Oil Cooler Holes: None (Can use aftermarket inline)
Oil Galley, filter main: 5/8”
Oil Filter: Stock oil filter location
Oil Pan: Std. BBC Gen V & VI bolt pattern
Rear Main Seal STD 1 pc seal
Hyd. Roller Provisions: incorporated
Starter: Mounts in standard location
Stud & bolt holes: Blind tapped
Tapped Holes: Std. English Thread & Pitch
Timing chain / gears: Std. BBC Gen IV
Timing Cover: Gen IV / V stock 10 bolt cover
Torque Specs: All ½” bolts – 105 ft lbs
Weight: 4.500” bore (260lbs)
Block Prep Option: Available for additional fee (Call)

Model: mkhpro 502

How much $$

1550.00

I ordered a 8.1 stock stroke crank from Mike @ MK Hammer, he gave it to me cheaper than I could buy from Scat. This is a USA forging machined on their custom machining centers. Usually takes 12 weeks to get one, it will be here Tue. The deal on the block looks like a super price, I had to order a GM 8.2 block from my warehouse and it was about 2000.00. I quess; I'll call him and get the details on one. You can't buy; a block from Dart or World at that price.
Mike; is a great guy to deal with.

Mark

Yeah! I bought two standard deck Dart blocks 3 years ago from Randy at Cobra.They were 2100.00 plus freight. So this IS a good deal as I figured.Didn't know anything about them!!!Just wanted to pass it on.JOHN SR

Are they gm made blocks or some kind of aftermarket blocks,i just bought a set of gen6 bow tie blocks for a job they have the fuel pump bosses and can be bored to 4.600 really nice ,i think i paid around 2000,they still need final machining

I think these are PBM blocks. If memory serves me correctly they are cast by Dart, but I will find out for sure this week at PRI.

PBM a year ago acquired some of World Products blocks. I have not heard Dart making any blocks for PBM but they (PBM) do carry Dart blocks especially the Aluminum version. I did hear that PBM small blocks are from China but again heresay, I will be at PRI also for the whole duration. If anyone wants to meet up I can post cell #.

fyi The dart gen 6 has a few bugs, The knock sensor is not close to the gm boss is/was, the oil passage for senders is not there.

And whoever the stupid fock that put the water drain behind the starter out to be tortured!!

also all the bolt holes on the front are not taped deep enough for stock hardware.



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I have been wondering this for a while also. The price reminds me of the too good to be true category like no name/Pro-Comp parts on flea bay.

PBM acquired the cast iron part of World Products. They have completely, retooled and reprogrammed the machining operations. All of the tolerance stacking and casting imperfections have been corrected. PBM has stopped selling Dart block for a few years now. The original cast small block they produced back years ago was done in China, and there were issues with it. I was told by my rep. that PBM had specific specs for the block and the QA was not done properly. Measurements were all over the place, core shift and more. It comes down to; someone was not doing their job and they were trusting their over seas person.
All of those blocks and heads have been; cut apart, sonic measured and verified to be correct. I know for a fact the owner of the company would not stand for an inferior product, nor does she tolerate someone not doing their job. I have purchased from PBM for many years and have always been satisfied with their parts and service.
If anyone has any questions; I can asked the 2nd person in charge for comments or answers to any of your questions.

If these turn out to be good blocks I would probably scrap the block I have been waiting to get from machine shop for almost a year now and just buy one of these ready to rock. Looking to be N/A around 800 hp capable out of this block. I have everything waiting, balanced ready to go in minus file fitting rings. I would rather assemble my 548 than the scab 454 "backup plan" I am doing now.

The PBM/ World blocks and heads, come from the same foundry in Michigan. The head machining is done in NC, blocks I will have to ask; about machining.

MK you can't touch this Hammer has his price on the net for the big block $1650 so someone got another 100 off inwhich is a steal if those blocks are any good. I think Jegs has Dart big blocks on sale for $2150. I'm at PRI so I'll get to see what and who has the GEN VI with the mechical fuel pump boss. I'll hit up PBM for pricing also. So a female owns them ?

I talked with Mike (MK Hammer) yesterday. Real nice guy and has built several motors from these blocks. He says they are cast by PBM/World and are of a better alloy than factory blocks. Cast in China and machined in USA (just like World blocks). Use all gen 6 hardware unlike the world blocks. Seems to be a good block. $1550 for just the block. Needs line hone/check, decks squated, and final hone to be ready to use. Im gonna check status of my block after the new year and maybe order one.

Like a said a GREAT buy. JOHN SR

PBM= Paula's boat money. Thought everyone new that...

Of course its a better alloy, China leads the world Unexplainium production. Honestly, with all the $$$ it takes to build a decent motor, why would you risk it, saving 500.00 on base/foundation of your motor?! Sorry, but I wouldn't use one of these blocks if it were given to me.

Liquidlounge!! Reason!!! is why spend the big money on the Dart blocks last ones I bought for a pair plus shipping was over 5,000.00.When all you want to do is build a almost stock 502 and no used blocks are available and your using all your stock gm parts except for a cam.Don't need any high dollar blocks on a blue collar guys pocket.If they are giving them away I'll take 2.That is the reason. JOHN SR

I don't know who is making these blocks, but it isn't World or PBM. My guess would be Pro Comp if there is no identifying markings on them. All World's blocks have a World logo cast on them and they are cast and machined here in the USA. PBM has not made any iron blocks for several years. Whether or not the blocks in question are cast in China I can't say - but if there isn't a World logo on them, they are something other than World Products. Just my $.02

Yea the typical OSO mindset of budgets doesnt work for us all. I am buying no cheap parts by any means but i shop around to find rebranded parts made by major big name manufacturers. Too often you are paying for name IMO. My rod are 4340 H beams from Engine Pro. Actually made by Manley and identical to the Manley brand version. Engine Pro bearings are actually ACL bearings just rebranded. It is like buying store brand food, made in same factory on same line, just a different label on the can. That is what I look for. Why pay more for the same darn thing?

From what I can tell, this block comes from the same foundry and machines as a world/merlin block which are historically "good" blocks. So in my mind it equates to basically a gen 6 merlin block.

I would like to hear of a few on here who actually built motors from these blocks.

Like I said, all World blocks are clearly marked - there are no private label or unmarked versions. If these blocks don't have a World logo cast on them, they are not made by World.

Ive been waiting to try a set of those enginepro rods. My local warehouse carries that line, and the cost of them is a no brainer. I was also told they are made by Manley.

I cant speak for these engine blocks, but yes, I agree. The majority of stuff on the market is rebranded and marked up.

Engine Pro parts all seem to be pretty high quality rebranded parts. My rods look awesome however I cant telk you how they hold up because I dont have a block to fit them in!

My first guess was pro comp junk when i first came across these a year ago. But pro comp lists no such block and you would think flea bay would be littered with them like the rest of the pro comp junk but it isnt. I just cant believe that all the work, tooling, casting are all for one dealer. Does anybody else sell these blocks?

This is about the closest thing i can find and is gmpp:
http://paceperformance.com/i-6255475...ch-bosses.html

PBM's website lists one block that doesn't carry a "see WORLD" price tag and fits the bore size but their website stinks and doesnt provide any other specs:
http://www.pbmperformance.com/store....777&parent=773

I would like to hear from Precision and find out if he talked to anyone about it at PRI.

http://www.superchevyperformance.com...p/19170540.htm
There you go, $1800.00 for your "almost stock 502" AND at my local Chevy dealer. Sorry, but QC on Chinese metallurgy is just above Iron Age methods, not to mention the GM machining should be way more consistent. Granted, this block is probably now produced in a maquiladora, but overall, I am sure the product will be far superior in virtually everyway to its Chinese cast, sales organization sold counterpart. As a bonus for you and me, more levels of added value are going to resonate through the US economy with the GM or any US made product. AND NO, I'm not a union member. I happen to be a business owner and very conservative (politically at least! :)) Good luck with your project!

The warehouse over here has been an engine pro supplier for a long time. They been in business at same location since 1976. The guys there been selling cranks, pistons, rods, etc to machine shops all over the Midwest area. When I asked about those rods, they said they are a great rod, and have received nothing but good feedback on them. They also sell eagle, scat, manley, etc. He showed me one of the engine pro H beams and seemed like a really nice piece.

They also have some Inconel valves in their lineup. Wonder if those are manleys too. I don't like buying cheap parts at cheap prices, but I do like buying good parts at cheap prices. A while back I got quoted 410.00 for Eagle H beams with ARP 2000 option, and 345.00 for Enginepro with arp2000 option. If indeed they are Manley's, how can ya not want to try them, when the Manley rod lists for around 700.00.

I believe they are Manley valves also. The engine shop i used to deal with loved building engines with their parts. I would still deal with them if their good machinist wouldnt have quit to drive a tow truck for more money.

..

After finding out the metallurgy of this block, I agree with liquidlounge. It is not the right block for my application and i thank him for finding me the great price on that gmpp block! Makes the decision a no brainer

Here are some specifications; Notice USA made CASTING for both PBM/World, doesn't state for the aluminum blocks.

BLOCKS - PBM IRON
BBC COMPETITION BLOCKS


• USA made casting
• Dedicated main oiling
• 1045 Billet steel main caps
• ARP 1/2" main studs
• Four bolt main caps all locations
• Clearanced for 4.375"(9.800 DECK) / 4.750" (10.200" DECK) stroke
• Standard BBC cam bearing size

Torque specs:

Inner Mains 100 Ft Lbs
Frt & rear Outer Main s 100 Ft Lbs
Center Splayed Mains 100 Ft Lbs

BBC SPORTSMAN BLOCKS


• USA made casting
• Dedicated main oiling
• Nodular cast main caps
• ARP 1/2" main studs ( excluding ST blocks)
• Four bolt main caps all locations
• Clearanced for 4.375"(9.800 DECK) / 4.750" (10.200" DECK) stroke
• Standard BBC cam bearing size

Torque specs:

Inner Mains 100 Ft Lbs
Frt & rear Outer Main s 100 Ft Lbs
Center Splayed Mains 100 Ft Lbs

SBF COMPETITION BLOCKS


• USA made casting
• Dedicated main oiling
• 1045 Billet steel main caps
• ARP 1/2" main studs
• Four bolt main caps all locations
• Clearanced for 3.400"(8.200" DECK 302) / 4.125" (9.500" DECK 351) stroke
• Standard SBF cam bearing size
• Drilled for 6 bolts per cylinder head

Torque specs:
Inner Mains 100 Ft Lbs
Frt & Rear Outer Main s 45 Ft Lbs
Center Splayed Mains 70 Ft Lbs

MERLIN III - BB CHEVY Now in it’s generation, World’s continually upgraded MERLIN cast iron block is the perfect foundation for any big block Chevrolet engine assembly. Made of a high density iron and manufactured to QS-9000 specifications on just two fixtures to eliminate tolerance stacking common on production lines, the MERLIN III can be bored to a maximum of 4.625” and is clearanced for a 4.375” crank on a 9.800 Deck height and 4.750 on a 10.200 Deck height. With a reinforced bottom end featuring 4-bolt splayed main caps, the MERLIN III can handle serious horsepower with complete reliability. It’s an excellent all-around value too!

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
Material: High Density Cast Iron
Deck Height: 9.800 or 10.200"
Deck Thickness: .600" minimum
Cam Bearings: Standard Chevrolet
Main Bearings: Standard Chevrolet
Camshaft Location: Stock
Lifter Bores: Indexed (stock .8437" bore)
Bore: 4.240 (hone to 4.250") or 4.490 (hone to 4.500")
Maximum Bore: 4.625"
Cylinder Wall Thickness: .250" at 4.600" bore
Water Jackets: Expanded for better cooling
Lubrication: Priority main oiling system
Filtration: Integral mount for spin-on filter
Oil Pan Rails: Solid (stock width)
Crank Clearance: 4.750" stroke crank (10.2) 3.75” stroke (9.8)
Main Caps: Nodular iron or billet steel
Fuel Pump: OEM mount
Starter: OEM mount
Motor Mounts: Dual (front and side)
Cylinder Head Bolt.StudHoles: Blind tapped to prevent leaks
Weight: Approximately 270 lbs.
n studs


BLOCKS-PBM ALUMINUM


PBM HAS DEVELOPED A STRONG AND AFFORDABLE ALUMINUM BLOCK. THE PBM ALUMINUM BLOCK IS IDEAL FOR RACING OR THE ULTIMATE STREET ROD.
•SIAMESED CYLINDERS
•TWO PIECE REAR MAIN SEAL
•IMPROVED WATER JACKETS
•FULLY SUPPORTED CYLINDERS
•PLUG KIT PROVIDED WITH BLOCK
•SUPERIOR MAIN WEBBING

SBC (350) RACE ALUM. BLOCKS

•Propriatary A356T7 Alum Casting
•Dedicated main oiling
•ARP main studs
•6 bolt rear main cap
•Full 1 inch deck thickness

The specifications are from PBMs site. It's a little hard to use; if not used to looking parts up.

I have the story on the blocks from PBM/ World. All the cast iron is done in Indiana, blocks machined in Ohio, most of the cast heads machined in NC. The Aluminum blocks cast in New Zealand. They do have a Gen 5, 6 block 1 piece rear seal, 4.495 bore . This block is cast in Indiana, also. Nothing that is cast comes from China, outside of your Scat, rods, cranks, things that you know are imported.
Let it be known that; Pro Comp makes a 502 block.

To go along with MER, World Products was acquired by PBM/ERSON. They are owned by Engine Parts Warehouse, very good people to deal with! Most of the aluminum stuff is referred to BMP (Bill Mitchell Products) in NY. Also very good people to deal with. If it is in fact a PBM/World block it will be high quality USA made.

Good to Know!

I asked my machinist about the PBM blocks. He said he's done a handful of them. The machining is better than when World owned. But they still need more attention than a Dart. Added machining costs gives you a little cheaper block than a Dart but he doesn't think it's worth it cause the Dart is a much superior piece. I paid $1800 for my Dart block last summer he normally sells them for $1900.

Depending how long ago, your machinist did a PBM/World block will make a difference. When PBM acquired, World Products cast iron division is when the changes took place. I believe; it has been a year now. Prior to that, it was still in Mitchell's hands. PBM completely retooled and the blocks meet ISO 9000, only 2 machining set-ups. The old stuff was tolerance stacked and had casting core shift, that had to be corrected. Before PBM came into the picture, I used to buy World @ 30% off WD. World changed things by offering complete engines, then they had you signing up or paying; I think $500 to get on their dealer list.
I can remember getting a couple of blocks that were bad. One was a new BBC, whole engine together, lifter bushings, decked. Put on dyno, had water going into oil, found fuel pump push rod bore had a porosity. World wanted me to send back, no credit for machining, said all blocks are vacuum tested??????? I over bored boss and made a bushing for push rod. Had another block that was only rough bored leaving .005 to take out. One of the cylinders looked like someone machined it a high feed rate and slower speed, left it so rough; I had to bore it again 4.530. So yes; they did have issues, with the World blocks and that's why; everything was redone by PBM.
PBM did back in 2008 have a small block, cast in China and it was a mess. Out of the 200 they sold; I was informed 3-4 came back as bad. They had record of where each block that was sold and to whom . That was bad publicity for PBM, after investing in a block and going down the toilet with it, isn't something a smart business, would do twice.
With out a doubt; Dart has a good product and has been around for a long time. Also in the past Dart, has had issues also and have been corrected. I guess; it just comes down to your preference of choice. Like cars, boats or anything else; you get what you pay for. Spend alot of money on a vehicle or buy one thats a throw-a-way, @ 100K miles.
Statements against a companies product; in reference to being made in the USA or China CHEAP, is something worth finding out.

I am sure PBM/World blocks are better pieces then when Mitchell was selling them, Customer support sucked back then I had to stop selling them as there were costing me to much money to repair them!!

Over the years I have seen some issues with Dart blocks and the Problems were taking care of the next day.

PBM stopped selling Dart blocks because they were shut off from Dart because they introduced the Chinese Dart Look alike block which turned out to be junk. PBM misled a lot of people advertising high nickel and high density blocks which was far from the truth, And it took a long time for them to spill the beans where they came from.

I did a lot of research on that block and found them to be junk.

Here are the links
Chinese look a like Little-M block
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic...er=asc&start=0

Material make up of the Chinese Dart look alike block
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18750

FINAL PROBING OF THE CHINESE LOOK A LIKE DART BLOCK
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic...er=asc&start=0

I think you will find the Chinese 502 block will be junk and simple sonic velocity test with a sonic tester can verify on how good of material was used. The Chinese block I tested was in the 1300"s and the Dart and the OEM blocks 1800 to 1900 in that area.

Also brinell test on the Dart Little-M was 200 and the SHP was 190 and the Chinese block was 113


I am sure that Dart, World and I see Blue Print engines now offers an all American made block.

It's a wonder you could even torque a head bolt or the mains on the Chinese blocks...

Carl,
Is it true that Pro Comp, is offering the 502 block we are speaking of, in different points of machining points?
Have you used any of the PBM or the World blocks that are now cast and machined in the USA. I know all the World blocks have met ISO 9000 certification, do you think they would change any of the machining for the PBM name block, and what would the casting material be in the PBM block verses the World?