Shop Labor times to Pull a motor
 

Local shop wants 9 hours shop labor to pull my motor replace engine coupler and reinstall motor into my Cigarette Top gun. Is this reasonable?

Seems fair especially if interior removal is included.

take off engine alone 1 to 2 hours. if need to remove hatch and or back seat another hour. change coupler 30 minutes
reinstall and alignment 2.5 to 3.5 plus hatch and seat 1 hour...

that's min 6 hours up to...8 hours... without counting surprises with rusted bolts or whatever else...

can make sense to me!

If it actually takes a shop 9 hours to pull a motor and replace a coupler they don't have any buisness working on boats. But a shop has to make money and has overhead and everything else. With that said I think 8 hours is fair but should take no more than 3-4

double post.

What Black Baja said.
If the engine can be hoisted straight up without anything being removed of the boat it should take no more than 3 to 4 hours.
I can have one of the motors out of the SCARAB in under an hour.
I could change that coupling on one of the SCARAB engines and have it back in the boat in under 3 hours. I think the DAYTONA would be quicker since I can EASILY get at every bolt , wire and hose on either side of the engine.

^^
true but add in moving boat around misc.time for this and that, the equipment they buy to do the job properly and make a profit in the process, they can always charge less if all goes well. No one wants to walk in and find out its gonna be more because of this or that.

1 hour to pull if a bravo and no race mounts,,,,1/2 to 1 hr to r&r coupler..2 hours to reinstall and mise 1/2 hout for the bull$hit..

Nobody mentions pulling and reinstalling exhaust. I think 9 hours for one tech is probably pretty close. Can we all do it faster on our own boats we are in every weekend....sure...but my time has a dollar amount as well...:)

There are a lot of sob stories about time it takes people to do something, but in all reality it takes 5 minutes to remove a hatch with a buddy or two, definitely not an hour. I understand everyone has bills to pay but charging time to move work around the shop?? that is ridiculous, there are some things that just come with owning a business.

You obviously haven't tried taking a hatch off a cigarette. 4 people minimum.
I usually just disconnect the lift ram and lean it back, tied off to a clear and leaning against a ladder.

It's all easy if it was done last week .Shops have to deal with engines that haven't been out in years. Sometimes 1 mounting bolt or 1 steering hose can fight back,. I'd rather be told the 9 hour number and it not go up ,than quoted a lower number that does go up. What is the labor rate on the estimated 9 hrs.
To make money a shop needs to charge for the time moving your crap around, and the mechanics times from "tools out until tools wiped and put up".
As far as ajfisher and the 5 minute hatch ...You're right some hatches take 5 min or less...some hatches take far more,even with a couple of capable people and a lift

Wow. You guys should all be boat mechanics! None of you ever had a stripped bolt, stuck part that wont come loose, etc that should only take 5 minutes to remove, but turns into an hour to remove?

I think 8 hours is very fair labor to do this job at a professional shop. Lets see, get boat setup in shop under hoist, remove hatch, remove drive, de-rig the harnesses, fuel lines, water lines, exhaust tails, etc, hoist engine out, swap coupler, reinstall engine, align, reassemble electrical stuff, mounts, reinstall drive, install hatch, etc. IMO, if i was a tech at a shop, I would consider this pretty much a full day's job. Def not something I would start on at 8am and have done by 11:30am ready for the customer to pick up.

Im sure it can be done in that time if you want a guy slamming thru it, and slapping it together. If a shop is charging 100 per hour labor, and can do this job in 3 hours, WTF am i doing working on my own $hit. I would gladly pay a shop 300 bucks to remove, and install one of my engines to say, swap a trans, or something like that. A 1999 38 Top Gun is a nice boat. I'd be more concerned with the quality of work, and a shop that isnt gonna toss greasy wrenches on the back seat, scratch the paint dragging air hoses and cords over everything, and generally rush the job out the door. :helmet:

Those 7/16 stainless bolts in the offshore mounts on my Formula LOVE to gall and bind/break on removal. That can add an easy 45 minutes to an hour to the job. The labor quote seems fair and what I would expect to pay for a job like that if I didn't do it myself.

just to add to this mess..you dont really have to remove the engine from the boat..if theirs room i will spin the engine in the hull to access the coupler..r&r it and reinstall the engine..that 's if its a bravo set up which i assume by him saying coupler..

I think engine R&R stories on the "internets" are about as believable as fuel mileage stories. :lolhit:

Im not complaining about the time. I was just asking if it was reasonable as I do not know how to remove the engine. Just making sure I wasn't getting gouged. I am having them do the repairs now. Like Mild Thunder says, Im more concerned that they do it right and not scratch or get grease on my Brand new paint and interior that has never been used yet. Maybe asking them for an hour of 1.5 off since the drive removal was already charged on another labor event which is how they found the coupler issue?

Personally I wouldn't start cheaping on them. What is that money in the overall scheme of things...Not a lot out of your pocket .. Keep the shop happy and they will keep you happy...M.O.

For those that can do it yourself, your labor times mean nothing. " I can do it in 3 hrs tops, that shop is a ripoff" Rarely does a DIY'r account for getting ready for the job (tools, moving boat, covering interior) and clean up after the job. This one may take 2 of the 9hrs quoted, the next make take 15 of the 9 hrs quoted.

That 9hrs does not sound out of wack for a professional job that HAS to be done right, because come backs will eat all the profit.

A professional business with real bills to pay should never be compared to back yard mechanic prices......never.

All im saying is you cant count on a bolt stripping and it turning into an hour, and if you are in the business you would most likely have an idea of what it takes and tricks for that model. I guess it depends on what the shop is charging you money wise, 9 hrs at $100hr? Hell no. $400-500 altogether then sure

When I had my 290, I paid our marina $800 to pull my motor amd do the coupler which included the coupler and is a much tighter job than a top gun is... you can summersault in those engine bays!

Dollar amounts and labor rates vary by region .I'd rather pay 1,000.00 labor with no drama than 300.00 and it be a cluster puck ...Not wanting to argue ..Just my observation

I agree the whole shade tree to shop price should never be compared. My father worked on them for over 40 years I grew up helping him and still do some work to this day. I can tell you now that 7-9 hours is not out of line esp if you have one guy doing it. even with two sometimes it can turn into a job if something unexpected turns up such as bolts steering something galling etc. Life happens and to those that THINK they can do it better than anyone else and faster then by all means hop to it and lets see it on your own from tool break out to tool wipe down. the CORRECT way and with a clean enough to return to the customer boat when done. If everything goes well and its cheaper great if not then sometimes even 8-9 hours is not enough. All depends on boat, boat condition, tools, hatches, etc ...

It really does not matter how fast you can do it as the fact of the matter is - it all goes off of book labor times in the marine industry - just the same as for the auto repair industry. No difference. They both have there book times for repairs.

Labor book time to R & R an outdrive is 1 to 1.5

Regardless if you do it in 2 mins or 2 weeks. labor book time is 6 hrs for R & R outdrive and motor without any repairs nor interior removal. This is the norm for average size boats, single engine apps that are OEM stock & rigged.

9 hours to R & R an engine from a twin app and repair the parts that is needed is really being super fair. Especially if interior removal is needed.

Anyone that thinks they can do all of this in 3 hours you better sign up for a job with the top marine shop in the nation.

Most shops will pull the motor completely out and put in on a engine stand to look further for potential problems as it is in both parties interest ie: starter, corrosion issues, impeller, water circ pump leaking and so on - its a whole lot easier while the engine is out to find other problems. Also while the drive is off - check - U-joints, splines, gimbal bearing and so on.

Most shops will not work on a motor while it is hanging in the engine compartment especially on twin apps - one is liability for the employees and liability for the boat / motor itself also safety & insurance issues come into play for many businesses.

Somewhat as to how a shop will handle their repairs. Plus keep this in mind everything going smoothly in which never happens while working on boats

They have to completely set up and tool set up, pull the drive, possible amount of interior to be removed, unhook all components, nuts, bolts and everything on the motor side. pull motor completely out, set the engine in a stand securely - remove all engine coupler components, install new one and proper torque it to spec, then grease the coupler at zerk , look for other problem areas, install motor back in the boat, tighten engine mount bolts, jump out of the boat check engine alignment, possible readjust engine for proper alignment, grease gimbal bearing, reinstall all connections, components and hardware to the engine - double / triple check all work done in the engine compartment, Fill power steering fluid to full, clean up the fluid that leak, next install new outdrive gasket kit for installing drive back on, grease splines, install drive, possible add gear lube to drive bottle because some came out from the dribble valve while R & R drive, next run the motor on water hose or test tank, shift the drive FWD & REV then if everything is OK reinstall all interior, then clean up your mess on the boat, engine, interior and drive.

you can do all of this in 3 hours properly - You would easily be hired by any marine shop with no questions asked.

^^^ exactly my point man was just trying to not have to type that much. lol

Perfectly said! And anyone who ACTUALLY works in a shop knows this. I bet all these people that think a boat engine R & R should only take 3 hours would be *****ing to a completely different tune if they were working in a flat rate shop and only got paid 3 hours to do all that work! Workin on boats SUCK! PERIOD! Ain't like pulling a motor out of a car where everything is right in front of you... Every time you forget or need another tool you are climbing out of a cramped ass engine compartment, climbing up and down ladders, trying not to **** up a custom interior job, hanging upside down half the time, everything weighs a damn ton, and I can go on and on... oh and let's not forget, if a $1,000 repair bill is gonna drive you nuts, then you probably shouldn't own a $100,000+ toy that you can't fix yourself ;)

I think the biggest crooks are Mercury... price gouging our eye balls out. If they didn't inflate thinks 1000% maybe we'd have money for labor... :lolhit:

Personally I would rather work on boats. most things aren't covered in grease or crammed somewhere that a wrench won't fit. And I do know the cost of running a business. (I own an HVAC business) But I also know what greed is. Just like they said the book price for R & R of a bravo drive is 1 to 1 1/2 hours. That is a joke. I am not a trained Marine mechanic that should know what tools he needs to do a given job. I an the one that has to keep going back to the tool box for the right size wrench. I can drain the drive, remove it, check the gimbal bearing, check the bellows and exposed cables, check alignment, grease the shift linkage and splines, check alignment and reinstall the drive and refill it in less than an hour and a half. And on my SCARAB I pull the engines with the exhaust ( Lightning ) still on.

But you're back to working on your own stuff, mark it,scratch it , miss some thing , oh well I'll get it fix it later, but if you paid for it you're gonna be pizzed big time. Thats the difference, someone is going to pay for phukin up my weekend!

I'm sorry to rain on your parade but HVAC and boats and cars are completely different and in NO WAY comparable to each other as far as labor rates ease or difficulty of work etc.... As for the labor time etc that you are complaining about you have to make a PROFIT somewhere. Just cause you can do the job in less than the time slotted does not mean that's all you charge if ya want to do more than make a living and just keep the lights on. If you can do the work with no hang ups or mess ups etc in the allowed time then every minute extra goes to your bottom line and helps pay for something or someone in the shop or biz. You probably have a given rate for given HVAC jobs I imagine. If you don't want to pay it and or can do it yourself then quit your *****ing and do it and leave the rest of them alone. Everyone's gotta make a living and make some money and make a living somehow.

Man handle a Bravo III for a couple of hours everyday plus do not put a scratch on it or drag the skeg, then see how much you like working boats down the road. Man its so easy and in a dream world you think everything will go so smooth but it never does. When you do this everyday boat after boat you will see the lite. Book time is what you will charge no matter how short of a period it takes you.and, a lot of jobs you will wish the book time rates were higher because a 2 hour book time now has taken you 4 hours for the repair. .

here is a good example especially on twin engine app deep V boat, Port starter is out but its only a guess because you have to test it, so after testing it, yes you verified it is toast, we all know it does not take long to change a starter - what in the perfect world 20 mins tops to replace the starter, who has ever R & R a starter on a twin side by side engine app in 20 mins. You are most likely going to charge 3 hours bare min. for that alone.plus 30 mins of diagnostic time. . .

There are minimum distance requirements by Mercury for when they allow for warranty work on engines, especially for things like access to bolts, water pump, and simple maintenance items (that they would have to replace under warranty). Dimensions like this are established so they can create baseline work hours for tasks.

In other words, you can't install the motor in the hull, and then encapsulate it by putting on the deck and surrounding on it.

However, some manufacturers really do take those dimensions down to the nitty gritty. Example: Change a SWP impeller on a 36 Outlaw, 38 Top Gun, and 37 Active Thunder, and you will have vastly different actual task/work hour durations.

Same goes for getting access to all the things you would need to disconnect to pull a motor, as well as engine hatch removal & clearance..

I cry bullcrap on the manufacturer having to give ez access for service. You haven't been in enough of the swoopy newer boats and looked. Not uncommon for the power to go in ,then put deck on ...

This is true on how some builders construct them. Formula is one of them. But you still must have adequate clearances & access once the deck is on. Last information I read, Formula bonds and screws the deck on the boat, not fiberglassed together like other manufacturers; FWIW.

do not forget you may need two or more people at times...

"must have access" and "do have access" aren't always one and the same

Totally agree, which is why I mentioned such in post #31.

It would take a VERY large chunk of money to get me to change an impeller in a 30' Baja Outlaw.

GH700 - the point is that I know how to run a business AND turn a nice profit. And yes I do know what the COST OF RUNNING A BUSINESS IS. SO then because the last two jobs took a little longer than planed it is now OK to screw the next two guys. And last I looked the boat mechanic didn't come to my boat I brought the boat to him.
I have to have mobile warehouses and tool boxes.
AND the last time I had work done on my boat they didn't fix the problem and made a mess of the interior.
NO THANKS - I will do it myself.
when I was 21 I could do better work then most marine mechanics.

BY the way Tinkerer was a name given to me by a friend - I did not just pull it out of my butt. I come up with ideas that surprise most people. One of those ( I never thought of that ) moments.

Theso your mobile shops are probably 50gs each, maybe more, whats the overhead on a full survice repair facility?

If you have anything at all as far as merc parts your talking hundreds of thousands in inventory, convenience aint cheap, but a lot of people are, which is why walmart is taking over and our economy is moving to china.

Sounds like you need a new boat mechanic then if they made a mess and didn't fix it. The finding different ways is fine when it's yours. When it's a paying customers then you do it the RIGHT way. As for cost etc of biz I own my own and we used to own and run a marina and boat repair until we sold it a few yrs ago when we got an offer we couldn't refuse. Also you charge a fair and even rate wether it takes extra or you're a head and it comes out in the wash no rip off no giveaways just even fair flat rate.