Awesome numbers! Perfect boat motor! you guys did a great job!

I'm trying to bring back some cool stuff in our tech section. Although I enjoy the threads like "my engine is leaking oil, where can it be from" or "my engine wont crank, what could it be", i think its nice to see what guys are building as far as their own engines, what kind of power, etc. I think it can really get some guys wheels turning, as far as what can be accomplished, what cant be accomplished, and so forth.

I loved following budmans 489 build, even though it took several years, he still posted results. Without results, its kinda just a bunch of guys trading theories all day.

we had the intercooler thread going. With this build, we got some data to go along with the theories. Theres so many guys I know of that are full of great knowledge, but dont post much. I'd love to see them post more :panda:

I also wanted to mention the machine shop . Top of the line crew , high end equipment, Marine friendly, top notch place. Mild Thunder can put 300 miles not easy miles on his rig without adding any oil and it still looks good. Good assembly, good machining.

Their DTS 2500 dyno may read a bit lower then your typical Dynojet (can`t fudge the correction factor on a DTS) but its accurate results and no B.S. numbers.




http://borowskirace.com/

MT,
Kudos to the team that made this work!

• Mike Tkach. Stellar job on the engine build. The engine was flawless from beginning to the end of the test.

• MT (Joe G.), Dan (ICDED) For all the input, support, and additional elbow grease.

• The dyno team at Borowski for providing accurate, repeatable data from which the necessary adjustment were made.

The majority of dyno sessions have their share of challenges and this was not the exception. I was on the phone with Mike a number of times throughout the day and everyone kept a positive attitude, maintained focus, nailed the tuning aspects, made the number (and then some!), and left the shop that evening smiling without having to mop the dyno room floor. That’s the way you do it.

Nice job guys!

Bob

Great to see tech in the tech section with supporting data!!

Yeah love to see combo/power numbers. Not guesstimates as we all know most guesstimates are wildly inaccurate. You basically have enough of a parts list for this build to be duplicated. Great info for many people (myself included if I end up with a carbbed 42) lol

i will also add to this by saying that they have a rottler cnc machining center and 2 neuan head machines along with all the other automotive machine shop equipment necessary to do top notch machine work.ken [the owner]and his crew are the best in the business and i would never even think of useing another shop.they make my assembly job easy.

Is borowski the shop that dynoed this motor?
Is this you guys? LMAO

[ATTACH=CONFIG]530292[/ATTACH]

that,s me driving my cat at 120 plus mph.that was several years ago and i built the engines[950 hp 540s] but they were not dyno tested at borowski,s.at that time they were owned by someone else and although i was working there as an engine assembler i was not happy with what was going on in the dyno room so i used a different dyno facility.the problem i had was not with the dyno equipment but the dyno operator.he was a lazy idiot.

Closer to 450 miles actually. And i am not running fancy pants rings. Just speed pro plasma moly file fit by mike tkach after a nice bore/honing process by the team at borowski.

Ring seal only as good as the bore finish they are in.

Hope it has good bearings.

Have you seen what mercury uses??? If they get away with those, there's more in proper machining than anything else.

The guy sitting next to you looks like he's $hitting has pants!!

i told him he needed sun glasses but he said he would be ok without them.i dont think he was enjoying his first ride at 120 plus.lol.

Cool. Good job guys.

So this crew of 4 geniuses couldn't make a centrifugal blower work? :D

no geniusis here,the centrifugal blower worked fine at a reasonable boost leval[12lbs] but not so good at 15 lbs on pump gas.the boat owner wanted more than physics will allow.you can not put a drag strip tuneup in a marine engine and expect it to live.hope this answered your question.

Oh it could have worked. But our buddy was not willing to reduce the boost level, to a reasonable PSI, for it to live. This was a carbed M4 application, that did make well over 1000HP on the dyno.

However, in the boat, it was less than stellar. Belt issues, bracket flex, blower getting so got you could fry eggs on it, lack of low end power getting on plane with a 42ft boat, and overall, it just wasnt a good combination as far as the static compression/cam combo he had. It was more suited to a roots than a centrifugal.

There is no doubt the prochargers work great when bolted on a stock EFI merc, running low boost. But imo, once you start getting up there with power levels, the whole thing takes a turn, and really needs to be thought out. And EFI is for sure the way to go there.

[QUOTE=MILD THUNDER;4197298And EFI is for sure the way to go there.[/QUOTE]

and even then its a biotch to tune.especially if it has to run in open loop all the time.
they still make me cringe when asked to tune one.:picard1:

Nice job guys, cool thread.

Could you or budman provide me a link to that build?
In my search I only found a thread for the intake manifold on it.
Thanks
See ya,
Kelly

Kelly, it's about 150yrs long. Are you sure you want to read it ? LOL.

Yes
Last year I had a thread about rebuilding or replacing my 500hr 525scs
I currently have 2 gen 4 454 4 bolt blocks, 2 gen 4 Skat 4340 4.25 cranks, 2 sets of Scat 4340 1/4" stroker rods, 2 melling oil pumps, and 2 pair of gen 5 088 heads to be refreshed I'm purchasing from Irish here on the board.
My reciprocating assembly and oil pumps are NIB
At machining I'm hoping for a 30 over 489.
Looking for a build kind of like Buds except not normally aspirated and propped to the low 5000's for longevity like my stock factory builds.
I'll run my 177s w/intercoolers for the time being unless I can find some 671's or 871's to replace them with before the build.
I'm looking for some 011 covers of the 731 gen 6 cam hoping it'll be a good compromise if I have to run the munckins until replacing them with the larger blowers.
As always I'm completely open to input on my thoughts towards achieving my objective.
Unfortunately I don't have the deep pockets or outdrives which will support the high hp low time between refreshes as some here may enjoy.

See ya,
Kelly

Kelly, nothing wrong with building the 489, you have the parts, so go for it. As far as what you are trying to do, theres not much that really relates to Budmans N/A build. You are planning on running a large low velocity intake port iron head, with a less than ideal flowing exhaust port. I am not a fan of those heads, and just about anything from Dart, AFR, Brodix, would be a major improvement to the build.

Since you'd be running a blower, here would be a quick example. AFR 305cc aluminum heads with CNC chamber option. These heads would stomp all over those GM iron heads, in both torque, and HP. I'd go with a flat top piston, and try to keep the compression up closer to 8.75, or even 9:1, rather than a traditional roots blower 8.0:1 or less. Reason being, you have a tiny blower. Giving the engine some static compression, will allow you to turn the blower a little slower, and make more power on "motor" so to speak.

As for the cam, I'd forget the 731 on this build. For 2 reasons. 1st reason, for the cost, you can have Bob Madara grind you a much better profile. Secondly, that cam leaves a little on the table as far as lift, and the 112LSA, might not be the way to go with the baby blower. You wanna keep overlap to a minimum, and try not to blow the boost out the exhaust valve, you wanna maximize what you can out of that tiny blower. When the time to upgrade blowers comes, you can still do so.

Generally speaking, putting a 177 blower, on nearly a 500inch engine, is something I wouldnt recommend. However, if you MUST use it for now, you need to build an engine, that will make good power without boost. Then add the 4-5psi to it. I'd like to think, with the above components, 675HP is possible. Maybe even a bit more. But first, you need to build a 575HP engine, not a 425HP engine under that little blower.

Dude, that is some of the best advice given on here. You absolutely hit the nail on the head.

Great job on the build. Glad to see it turned out so well. I would love to see more threads like this. This is how it used to be. Keep it up guys.
Eddie

Thank you sir! Means alot coming from a man of your caliber!

Thats just my mindset, thanks for the insight and it's just the kind of info I'm looking for.
I was going to start a thread here soon and l saw a tidbit of this when I found the intake thread after you mentioned the build.

I wasn't attempting to railroad the discussion here, just get a link.
I'll search harder at a pc later rather than jack with this cellphone watching football.

BTW, way to go on those mills for all of y'all, awesome returns indeed. :coolcowboy:

See ya
Kelly

Don't sell yourself short brother. You are a HUGE asset to this site. The OSO community is very lucky to have you here.
Eddie

Ok I think joe and Eddie need to get a room! Lol

LOL. I give credit where it's due. And in this case, it's due.

I agree. Just yankin chains. You, joe, mike tkacjshd(however you spell it), Bob M, SB, and a few others are great assets and give great technical advice.

Man, Scott's still bustin my nads over that one! Hey, hasn't anyone else had boatenginebuild neurosis? ;)

Kelly, what kind of power are you looking to make? You might be able to achieve your goals normally aspirated, and put the money for the blowers towards your heads and a set of O2 widebands. My build admittedly had some compromises - although my cam was originally ground by Bob M., I bought it from another OSO'er who had it designed for his application. If I had it to do over again, I would have gone from the ground up and had Bob design a cam for my specific application. I kind of backed into my build. I started out with the same cast iron heads you have, but when I realized how much I would have invested in them to make them right (bowl blending, inconel valves, good springs & keepers, guides, etc.), it was a no-brainer to spend a few hundred more and get a set of AFR's with their superior flow. Bob suggested going with a set of the 265 oval's, and they worked great on this build. Dyno run produced 585 HP @ 5400 RPM, broad. flat torque curve over 605 ft/lb almost the whole way. I left some power on the table with a very mild cam grind and a too-small Holley 800 carb. Bob said that those heads are capable of supporting 625 HP with the right cam and induction.

You have a great starting point with solid reciprocating assemblies. Talk to Bob about a good head/cam/induction combo to go with it, and I think you will be very happy with it. I think a set of AFR 265's, 290's or even 305's would work really well on a 489 with the right cam. Pick out the right parts for your valvetrain to go with it - Morel lifters, Scorpion rockers, and Manton .120 pushrods did the trick for me. Good luck with your build, and feel free to lean on the folks on the board for advice on putting it together! (Just don't drive everyone crazy like I did! :p :D )

Rather than take this off the main topic I'll be starting a new thread here shortly.
Thanks for everything guys, the availabilty of quality knowledge from hands on experience of what works in the real world is why I love thia site.
See ya,
Kelly

Wish I could make it down there one day! I think it would been great. Thanks !!

Awesome thread, it's what used to be so great about OSO.

It's still awesome on many threads such as this one staying on topic and not a bunch of wack-a-mole bashing LOL!!!

See ya,
Kelly

MIld Thunder. I tried to PM you but box is full. I have some questions on this PC build that you said would have worked if things where changed in the combo.