Dyno proven 675-700 HP 540CI recipes?
08-05-2015, 10:13 AM
#281
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Thanks for coming in bob. Always one to clear the air. I too save emails, pm's, etc. This thread should really get good now. I know a few who feel the need to do the same.
While you are here, can you give us some more specifics on tims cams ? Not just .050 numbers
Also, maybe clear up how tim screwed you out of that 900 bucks for that head?
While you are here, can you give us some more specifics on tims cams ? Not just .050 numbers
Also, maybe clear up how tim screwed you out of that 900 bucks for that head?
08-05-2015, 11:00 AM
#282
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Tim, look at the bright side. At least you
A. HAVE A BOAT
B. HAVE A BOAT THAT RUNS
C. HAVE ENGINES THAT ARE COMPLETE NOT PROTOTYPES
D. HAVE A GARAGE BIGGER SOME PEOPLES SHOPS
E. YOU CAN SAY YOU BUILT THEM OVER A FEW BEERS WITH A BUDDY, PROBABLY HAD A TON OF LAUGHS ALONG THE WAY.
F. Hang out with more azz than most guys see in a lifetime every weekend.
A. HAVE A BOAT
B. HAVE A BOAT THAT RUNS
C. HAVE ENGINES THAT ARE COMPLETE NOT PROTOTYPES
D. HAVE A GARAGE BIGGER SOME PEOPLES SHOPS
E. YOU CAN SAY YOU BUILT THEM OVER A FEW BEERS WITH A BUDDY, PROBABLY HAD A TON OF LAUGHS ALONG THE WAY.
F. Hang out with more azz than most guys see in a lifetime every weekend.
08-05-2015, 11:12 AM
#283
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True, 2 more days until I get to do it again!!!
Tim, look at the bright side. At least you
A. HAVE A BOAT
B. HAVE A BOAT THAT RUNS
C. HAVE ENGINES THAT ARE COMPLETE NOT PROTOTYPES
D. HAVE A GARAGE BIGGER SOME PEOPLES SHOPS
E. YOU CAN SAY YOU BUILT THEM OVER A FEW BEERS WITH A BUDDY, PROBABLY HAD A TON OF LAUGHS ALONG THE WAY.
F. Hang out with more azz than most guys see in a lifetime every weekend.
A. HAVE A BOAT
B. HAVE A BOAT THAT RUNS
C. HAVE ENGINES THAT ARE COMPLETE NOT PROTOTYPES
D. HAVE A GARAGE BIGGER SOME PEOPLES SHOPS
E. YOU CAN SAY YOU BUILT THEM OVER A FEW BEERS WITH A BUDDY, PROBABLY HAD A TON OF LAUGHS ALONG THE WAY.
F. Hang out with more azz than most guys see in a lifetime every weekend.
08-05-2015, 11:28 AM
#284
I'm just curious to know if a "GIL" exhaust system is not a good exhaust design, then what are some other options for exhaust designs? Also, would the GILs be better for a supercharged/blower setup? Is a GIL not good enough for---what size CID naturally aspirated engine? What CID is needed for the GILs to work/breath properly?
Back in the 1980's, I would watch guys bolt on the GILs and watch their RPM increase, but we didn't have GPS's back then to really see any definitive increases in speed, but they seemed to make the engines wake up.
Back then, people had to learn that if you upgraded your engines to make more power thru the induction system, that you also had to make a change in the exhaust as well. I think some guy's boats even went slower until they installed the GILs....it took a while for some people to understand that. The GILs were (or at least seemed to be) a big improvement over a stock Merc cast iron exhaust system---at least back then. I cannot imagine the GILs really being that bad of a design---what do you guys think?
Back in the 1980's, I would watch guys bolt on the GILs and watch their RPM increase, but we didn't have GPS's back then to really see any definitive increases in speed, but they seemed to make the engines wake up.
Back then, people had to learn that if you upgraded your engines to make more power thru the induction system, that you also had to make a change in the exhaust as well. I think some guy's boats even went slower until they installed the GILs....it took a while for some people to understand that. The GILs were (or at least seemed to be) a big improvement over a stock Merc cast iron exhaust system---at least back then. I cannot imagine the GILs really being that bad of a design---what do you guys think?
Last edited by KAAMA; 08-05-2015 at 11:31 AM.
08-05-2015, 11:31 AM
#285
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I find that very hard to believe, especially with gil manifolds at that power level. Ive seen many marine exhaust comparisons over the years. Blown engines, not as sensitive to exhaust tuning. Bigger ci na stuff, prinary diameter, length, collector length, collector size, all can have a major effect . One in particular 2 weeks ago was a NA 572 build with cmi tractor pipe headers. They had short 6 inch tails with a small silencer type of baffle to keep the noise down. Not really a restrictive looking piece, but , i suggested to remove them and do another pull. 41hp gain, and 38ft lbs if i recall.
Also, a well known oso marine engine builder recently ran a mild 509 build on the dyno with the stock 4780 holley 800. He borrowed a 1050 quick fuel 4150 blower carb from us. After fine tuning it, as it was pretty rich, the engine picked up 50-60hp over the stock 800 holley.
Of course, this is where the dyno comes to play. I try to keep my advice on oso based on what ive done, seen, etc.
Also, a well known oso marine engine builder recently ran a mild 509 build on the dyno with the stock 4780 holley 800. He borrowed a 1050 quick fuel 4150 blower carb from us. After fine tuning it, as it was pretty rich, the engine picked up 50-60hp over the stock 800 holley.
Of course, this is where the dyno comes to play. I try to keep my advice on oso based on what ive done, seen, etc.
08-05-2015, 11:37 AM
#287
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Supercharged ?
I won't believe it NA, because I won't believe it. LOL.
Unless......the 'collector' lengths and ID where at 'worst' lengths with the headers. Be careful on this, even the dyno ! I had a 600hp 454 that gained almost 80hp (proven at track too) that by mistake found out it had 'worst' length and design collectors. More exactly, it was a 525hp motor that became a 600hp motor. Yup. Carburetor ended up 'taking' almost 10 more jet sizes. Best tune vs best tune.
Once figured out, even ran into mild 300hp level motors that where shot in the azz to the tune of 30 or so hp.
I won't believe it NA, because I won't believe it. LOL.
Unless......the 'collector' lengths and ID where at 'worst' lengths with the headers. Be careful on this, even the dyno ! I had a 600hp 454 that gained almost 80hp (proven at track too) that by mistake found out it had 'worst' length and design collectors. More exactly, it was a 525hp motor that became a 600hp motor. Yup. Carburetor ended up 'taking' almost 10 more jet sizes. Best tune vs best tune.
Once figured out, even ran into mild 300hp level motors that where shot in the azz to the tune of 30 or so hp.
08-05-2015, 11:42 AM
#288
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I'm just curious to know if a "GIL" exhaust system is not a good exhaust design, then what are some other options for exhaust designs? Also, would the GILs be better for a supercharged/blower setup? Is a GIL not good enough for---what size CID naturally aspirated engine? What CID is needed for the GILs to work/breath properly?
Back in the 1980's, I would watch guys bolt on the GILs and watch their RPM increase, but we didn't have GPS's back then to really see any definitive increases in speed, but they seemed to make the engines wake up.
Back then, people had to learn that if you upgraded your engines to make more power thru the induction system, that you also had to make a change in the exhaust as well. I think some guy's boats even went slower until they installed the GILs....it took a while for some people to understand that. The GILs were (or at least seemed to be) a big improvement over a stock Merc cast iron exhaust system---at least back then. I cannot imagine the GILs really being that bad of a design---what do you guys think?
Back in the 1980's, I would watch guys bolt on the GILs and watch their RPM increase, but we didn't have GPS's back then to really see any definitive increases in speed, but they seemed to make the engines wake up.
Back then, people had to learn that if you upgraded your engines to make more power thru the induction system, that you also had to make a change in the exhaust as well. I think some guy's boats even went slower until they installed the GILs....it took a while for some people to understand that. The GILs were (or at least seemed to be) a big improvement over a stock Merc cast iron exhaust system---at least back then. I cannot imagine the GILs really being that bad of a design---what do you guys think?
I believe a 540ci, with a hot cam, good flowing heads, good induction, can benefit from a good exhaust setup. Simple things like collector extensions can make a significant difference, let alone primary diameter, length, etc etc. Like sb said earlier, a NA deal is more sensitive to exhaust tuning, where a forced induction deal just isnt the same.
Again, this is where dyno tuning comes in handy! At least for finding answers ...
08-05-2015, 12:04 PM
#289
Yeah, that was a long time ago....back in the early 80's. I suppose anything was better than the old stock Merc cast iron log style manifolds from back then. I have always heard good things about the Stainless Marine exhaust systems and have recommended them to people on here in the past.
08-05-2015, 12:20 PM
#290
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I hear alot mention "stainless marine" ..they make a great product no doubt. Their standard manifolds, and Gen III manifolds, are very different. Standard manifold is typical divided runner, into a 3.5 gas pipe tail. Gen III, are a split runner manifold as well, but with a massive cast elbow, that goes into a 4.5 gas pipe, with 5 inch overall diameter tail. Mostly found on large forced induction setups.
I think for manifolds, it was and is hard to beat the old PFM /Eickert style manifolds. They are basicallly a cast aluminum header, with long runner lengths. Not just a short 8 inch runner dumping into a common plenum or tailpipe.
This is old stuff pretty much. Same principles guys 50 years ago were ditching their manifolds for headers on musclecars making 400hp and going faster.
I think for manifolds, it was and is hard to beat the old PFM /Eickert style manifolds. They are basicallly a cast aluminum header, with long runner lengths. Not just a short 8 inch runner dumping into a common plenum or tailpipe.
This is old stuff pretty much. Same principles guys 50 years ago were ditching their manifolds for headers on musclecars making 400hp and going faster.
