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-   -   Rod bolts, main caps, and what not. (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/320624-rod-bolts-main-caps-what-not.html)

Borgie 11-30-2014 12:30 AM


Originally Posted by Budman II (Post 4227557)
Did you choose the L19's mainly due to fatigue resistance, or was your main objective strength? Seems like the 2000 series bolts would have more than enough holding power for a normally aspirated 489 being spun at around 6500 max, unless you were planning to go higher than that. Just curious.

I actually had L-19's in a LT-1 drag car and a built 350 years ago. Never an issue, but this time I had opted to go with a Callies Compstar crank and rod deal, so the L-19's are what Callies uses for the BBC H beams(compstar). Having heard some opinions regarding hydrogen embrittlement and corrosion issues, I went to the source, Callies, and spoke to an Engineer and one other fellow. It was a while back, so for the sake of not becoming a poor historian, I will say for now that they were against me changing to the 2000 series ARP bolt. Not going to argue with that.

Max RPM is going to be 6000. Yeah, it's likely overkill for my 600hp deal, however so are the main studs, crank etc etc... You know how this habit, I mean hobby goes ;)

Black Baja 11-30-2014 04:45 AM


Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER (Post 4227528)
OK, so we've touched base on the rod bolts. How about main caps?

At what point, whether it be RPM, stroke, HP level, does the ductile iron cap become an issue? Anybody witness signs of cap walk at certain levels?

I remember reading some literature from the bowtie blocks. In that literature, they rated the iron cap block for 800hp, and steel cap block to 1200hp.


The billet and cast caps both get bolted into the same block. How in the world could that make a 400hp difference. Aluminum blocks have aluminum caps and get bolted into guess what? Aluminum... The billet cap blocks are one of the biggest rip offs they have going on.

Cole2534 11-30-2014 07:18 AM

How? Deflection. The block side of the bearing is for all intents and purposes infinitely stiff. It's a lot deeper in cross section than the cap side. So if they produce a stiffer cap to attach to the block they get a higher HP rating. I've no idea how that rating is evaluated but I'd not be surprised to see bearing stability as a factor in the matrix. It doesn't matter if the block is iron, aluminum, or cheese whiz if the main studs are threaded deeply enough into the block; once pull out forces exceed the tensile limit of the stud.

Just an engineer's opinion, worth what you paid.

BTW, the Compstar rods, according to the Callies website, come with arp2000 bolts.

Black Baja 11-30-2014 07:40 AM


Originally Posted by Cole2534 (Post 4227597)
How? Deflection. The block side of the bearing is for all intents and purposes infinitely stiff. It's a lot deeper in cross section than the cap side. So if they produce a stiffer cap to attach to the block they get a higher HP rating. I've no idea how that rating is evaluated but I'd not be surprised to see bearing stability as a factor in the matrix. It doesn't matter if the block is iron, aluminum, or cheese whiz if the main studs are threaded deeply enough into the block; once pull out forces exceed the tensile limit of the stud.

Just an engineer's opinion, worth what you paid.

BTW, the Compstar rods, according to the Callies website, come with arp2000 bolts.

When I looked at the website it said l19 on the chinese rods and it gets torqued a little more than the 2000.

Cole2534 11-30-2014 07:46 AM

http://www.callies.com/compstar/connecting-rods/

Borgie 11-30-2014 07:59 AM


Originally Posted by Cole2534 (Post 4227597)
How? Deflection. The block side of the bearing is for all intents and purposes infinitely stiff. It's a lot deeper in cross section than the cap side. So if they produce a stiffer cap to attach to the block they get a higher HP rating. I've no idea how that rating is evaluated but I'd not be surprised to see bearing stability as a factor in the matrix. It doesn't matter if the block is iron, aluminum, or cheese whiz if the main studs are threaded deeply enough into the block; once pull out forces exceed the tensile limit of the stud.

Just an engineer's opinion, worth what you paid.

BTW, the Compstar rods, according to the Callies website, come with arp2000 bolts.

Not the BBC Compstar. http://m.summitracing.com/parts/cpi-b6135es3b9ah I have the 6.385 version fwiw.

Cole2534 11-30-2014 08:05 AM

Lol, even the Summit page is contradictory, the spec says L19 and the description says arp2000.

Screw it. :)

MER Performance 11-30-2014 08:12 AM

I'm really happy Alex, came in and made his statement. He couldn't have said; it any better. Look at wrist pin boss design ever notice the lack of material on the bottom side of the boss, verses the top side, being solid. Inspect you top rod bearing in comparison to the bottom, the top will always have a slight area that is different from startup and normal wear. The bottom will always look new unless you have other issues. Free wheeling a engine with no load as Alex stated, creates issues, in trying to pull the wrist pin out and separate the rod cap.
Deceleration, plays the same role in road racing. Bob Madara, would be our expert on that statement. Tonight or Monday he maybe be able to comment, He told me he has been busy; shooting deer with a bow, wrestling bears and hiking into Canada, in search of a Christmas tree to cut down for his family.

Since all of you guys are titling yourselves; My new title is : "Grease Monkey" or Mechanic

Black Baja 11-30-2014 08:17 AM


Originally Posted by Cole2534 (Post 4227624)
Lol, even the Summit page is contradictory, the spec says L19 and the description says arp2000.

Screw it. :)

On an interesting side not it looks like Callie's has gotten into the camshaft game.

MER Performance 11-30-2014 08:28 AM


Originally Posted by Black Baja (Post 4227632)
On an interesting side not it looks like Callie's has gotten into the camshaft game.

Callies, has been in the camshaft core business, they don't grind cams. They did that to save their crankshaft sales, for Lycoming & Continental aircraft engines. Cane did the cams for these engines and when they shut down, so did the supply of cams. Back in that time; there was a shortage of cam cores. Madara, can comment on that also.
Callies, also used to induction harden, their cranks. Now they are nitrided back as before, they sold a part of the company that made industrial crankshafts and I believe; for diesels also.


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