Neutral balance Harmonic balancers? middle of the line?
01-24-2015, 10:33 AM
#11
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Tim, I'm sure I'll get corrected, or this will turn into a 23 page thread, but.......
Scat, who probably sells/manufactures/supplies more crankshafts then about anyone else, has been using Proffessional products balancers with their cranks for a long time. I do not believe they would use them if they were problematic . 75.00 cheaper than Jegs on amazon. Icdedppl has them on his blown 540's, no issues.
http://www.amazon.com/Professional-P.../dp/B001ELXDVW
http://www.jegs.com/i/Scat/942/D-90004/10002/-1
Scat, who probably sells/manufactures/supplies more crankshafts then about anyone else, has been using Proffessional products balancers with their cranks for a long time. I do not believe they would use them if they were problematic . 75.00 cheaper than Jegs on amazon. Icdedppl has them on his blown 540's, no issues.
http://www.amazon.com/Professional-P.../dp/B001ELXDVW
http://www.jegs.com/i/Scat/942/D-90004/10002/-1
01-24-2015, 10:41 AM
#15
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I've herd it through a couple machinist, it was posted on Scat's website a while back and it was on the paper that was in the box with the last crank I bought from Eagle. Maybe total BS today but the theory (if it is only that) makes sense. Also I have all my rotating assemblies balanced so I just stayed clear of them.
I don't think a Mack truck is using a BBC crank with a small snout.
I don't think a Mack truck is using a BBC crank with a small snout.
01-24-2015, 02:32 PM
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There's a past article in Engine Builder Magazine, that talks about balancers. I have used Fluidampers, over the years. The fluid, does't settle it has a long shelf life. Better check that data, before making statements. The balancer doesn't, balance the engine; it controls the harmonics of the cranks deflection, in the combustion process, from each journal. If; I'm using a PBM it's the Power Bond, with a SFI certification and it's 8".
Any rubber bonded balancer, requires close inspection. Cracks, bulging of rubber are issues. If you are ripping the bonding material out of the balancer, you better check the balancing of the rotating assy, if the balance is out it will cause the harmonics to increase it's work load and heat cycle.
A bonded balancer, is something used for production or engines that are being raced and the balancer is going to be replaced or rebuilt. A Fluidamper, is designed for industrial engines, high performance, diesels which have high harmonics due to the combustion process and deflection of crankshaft.
I had one of customers, buy his own balancer. One pull on the dyno and the outer ring slipped, some import he bought on-line.
Any rubber bonded balancer, requires close inspection. Cracks, bulging of rubber are issues. If you are ripping the bonding material out of the balancer, you better check the balancing of the rotating assy, if the balance is out it will cause the harmonics to increase it's work load and heat cycle.
A bonded balancer, is something used for production or engines that are being raced and the balancer is going to be replaced or rebuilt. A Fluidamper, is designed for industrial engines, high performance, diesels which have high harmonics due to the combustion process and deflection of crankshaft.
I had one of customers, buy his own balancer. One pull on the dyno and the outer ring slipped, some import he bought on-line.
01-24-2015, 04:08 PM
#17
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There's a past article in Engine Builder Magazine, that talks about balancers. I have used Fluidampers, over the years. The fluid, does't settle it has a long shelf life. Better check that data, before making statements. The balancer doesn't, balance the engine; it controls the harmonics of the cranks deflection, in the combustion process, from each journal. If; I'm using a PBM it's the Power Bond, with a SFI certification and it's 8".
Any rubber bonded balancer, requires close inspection. Cracks, bulging of rubber are issues. If you are ripping the bonding material out of the balancer, you better check the balancing of the rotating assy, if the balance is out it will cause the harmonics to increase it's work load and heat cycle.
A bonded balancer, is something used for production or engines that are being raced and the balancer is going to be replaced or rebuilt. A Fluidamper, is designed for industrial engines, high performance, diesels which have high harmonics due to the combustion process and deflection of crankshaft.
I had one of customers, buy his own balancer. One pull on the dyno and the outer ring slipped, some import he bought on-line.
Any rubber bonded balancer, requires close inspection. Cracks, bulging of rubber are issues. If you are ripping the bonding material out of the balancer, you better check the balancing of the rotating assy, if the balance is out it will cause the harmonics to increase it's work load and heat cycle.
A bonded balancer, is something used for production or engines that are being raced and the balancer is going to be replaced or rebuilt. A Fluidamper, is designed for industrial engines, high performance, diesels which have high harmonics due to the combustion process and deflection of crankshaft.
I had one of customers, buy his own balancer. One pull on the dyno and the outer ring slipped, some import he bought on-line.
01-25-2015, 06:43 AM
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Honestly; I have never used one. You have to look at it this way, they make and sell different parts. The name refers to every part made, I myself; wouldn't use their intakes and that goes for a balancer, Power Bond, Fluidampr, ATI, make balancers. Do some research; on the physics and operation between the balancer and the crankshaft, then ask yourself; is cost the factor or controlling torsional dampening?
Many are mislead using the word "balancer", it's a torsional dampener. The counter weight on a dampener or flywheel, is only there to offset, design of crankshaft, and the rotating mass of the assembly, it's cost effective to add weight at the dampener and flywheel. The draw back is added weight at the ends of the crankshaft, Acceleration and deceleration also work the dampener. If you took a new Fluidampr and looked at it, it's like a dark black finish, install it and run it on a supercharged engine. When you go back and look at it, the color has changed to a green tint, that is from the heat cycle and temperature changes within, not from heat transfer from crankshaft.
This is one of the most overlooked subjects in engine building, understanding the dynamics of the engine and how it's trying to destroy it's self. Cranks break from, improper balancing,being externally balanced with larger strokes, cuts in crank snout from sharp edges from multiple indexed timing gears, small cracks from stress points undetected,
Many are mislead using the word "balancer", it's a torsional dampener. The counter weight on a dampener or flywheel, is only there to offset, design of crankshaft, and the rotating mass of the assembly, it's cost effective to add weight at the dampener and flywheel. The draw back is added weight at the ends of the crankshaft, Acceleration and deceleration also work the dampener. If you took a new Fluidampr and looked at it, it's like a dark black finish, install it and run it on a supercharged engine. When you go back and look at it, the color has changed to a green tint, that is from the heat cycle and temperature changes within, not from heat transfer from crankshaft.
This is one of the most overlooked subjects in engine building, understanding the dynamics of the engine and how it's trying to destroy it's self. Cranks break from, improper balancing,being externally balanced with larger strokes, cuts in crank snout from sharp edges from multiple indexed timing gears, small cracks from stress points undetected,
01-25-2015, 06:50 AM
#19
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Honestly; I have never used one. You have to look at it this way, they make and sell different parts. The name refers to every part made, I myself; wouldn't use their intakes and that goes for a balancer, Power Bond, Fluidampr, ATI, make balancers. Do some research; on the physics and operation between the balancer and the crankshaft, then ask yourself; is cost the factor or controlling torsional dampening?
Many are mislead using the word "balancer", it's a torsional dampener. The counter weight on a dampener or flywheel, is only there to offset, design of crankshaft, and the rotating mass of the assembly, it's cost effective to add weight at the dampener and flywheel. The draw back is added weight at the ends of the crankshaft, Acceleration and deceleration also work the dampener. If you took a new Fluidampr and looked at it, it's like a dark black finish, install it and run it on a supercharged engine. When you go back and look at it, the color has changed to a green tint, that is from the heat cycle and temperature changes within, not from heat transfer from crankshaft.
This is one of the most overlooked subjects in engine building, understanding the dynamics of the engine and how it's trying to destroy it's self. Cranks break from, improper balancing,being externally balanced with larger strokes, cuts in crank snout from sharp edges from multiple indexed timing gears, small cracks from stress points undetected,
Many are mislead using the word "balancer", it's a torsional dampener. The counter weight on a dampener or flywheel, is only there to offset, design of crankshaft, and the rotating mass of the assembly, it's cost effective to add weight at the dampener and flywheel. The draw back is added weight at the ends of the crankshaft, Acceleration and deceleration also work the dampener. If you took a new Fluidampr and looked at it, it's like a dark black finish, install it and run it on a supercharged engine. When you go back and look at it, the color has changed to a green tint, that is from the heat cycle and temperature changes within, not from heat transfer from crankshaft.
This is one of the most overlooked subjects in engine building, understanding the dynamics of the engine and how it's trying to destroy it's self. Cranks break from, improper balancing,being externally balanced with larger strokes, cuts in crank snout from sharp edges from multiple indexed timing gears, small cracks from stress points undetected,
Thx for the help bud, I like the opinions and reasons I learn...
01-25-2015, 06:57 AM
#20
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Don't go with Professional Products anything. They used to be mentioned all the time (lowest quality of lowest quality) before ProComp made their wy in the market. That is why PP is not mentioned much anymore...and it's the only reason.
Tim, I'm sure I'll get corrected, or this will turn into a 23 page thread, but.......
Scat, who probably sells/manufactures/supplies more crankshafts then about anyone else, has been using Proffessional products balancers with their cranks for a long time. I do not believe they would use them if they were problematic . 75.00 cheaper than Jegs on amazon. Icdedppl has them on his blown 540's, no issues.
http://www.amazon.com/Professional-P.../dp/B001ELXDVW
http://www.jegs.com/i/Scat/942/D-90004/10002/-1
Scat, who probably sells/manufactures/supplies more crankshafts then about anyone else, has been using Proffessional products balancers with their cranks for a long time. I do not believe they would use them if they were problematic . 75.00 cheaper than Jegs on amazon. Icdedppl has them on his blown 540's, no issues.
http://www.amazon.com/Professional-P.../dp/B001ELXDVW
http://www.jegs.com/i/Scat/942/D-90004/10002/-1
