What Thought Crosses Your Mind ?
#31
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,102
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From: Granger, Indiana
Of course it is, they can't afford for it not to be. Look up a Gage R&R study, the precision in a modern engine is no accident.
The level of sophistication and absolute quality that the US, the Japanese, the Germans, etc, can deliver day in, day out from a modern production line is not respected and almost incomprehensible.
The level of sophistication and absolute quality that the US, the Japanese, the Germans, etc, can deliver day in, day out from a modern production line is not respected and almost incomprehensible.
AMEN!!!!!!!
I work in the Medical Device market - all I can say is that from my experience (over 30+ years)- the "gear head" mentality or perception that machinists are low level workers is absolutely WRONG-- the machinists that I've dealt with are skilled artisans. The days of some jerk running a mill or lathe (while might exist in remote locations) are long gone -- I've seen people that from outward appearances wouldn't let them pump gas in my car (boat) make these systems sing - they know programing and tolerance setting, stack-up tolerance assessments etc., like the back of their hand.
Hats off to our machinists!!!
3pointstar
#32
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Joined: Sep 2013
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There is a SAE paper investigating how it is possible ( in the 70s) for the Japanese to manufacture motor cycle engines with just under 100 hp per liter and with total reliability.
At the same time, remember what Harley delivered in the 70s performance and quality wise......or the GM smog 350.....
(Not starting a ware here, I sold my 09 Ultra for the boating life style and I have owned a 73 Vette 350)
The conclusion in the SAE paper was, .......tolerances! No fancy alloys, bearing material or anything except exact tolerances.
Did I just do an ad for the custom built marine engines.....
At the same time, remember what Harley delivered in the 70s performance and quality wise......or the GM smog 350.....
(Not starting a ware here, I sold my 09 Ultra for the boating life style and I have owned a 73 Vette 350)
The conclusion in the SAE paper was, .......tolerances! No fancy alloys, bearing material or anything except exact tolerances.
Did I just do an ad for the custom built marine engines.....
#33
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 386
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From: Beaverton Or
And.....valvetrain runs half speed of crank/rod/pistons. Thus why discussion of piston speed comes up here and there.
Amazing stuff for sure.
And here is the sounds of a Renault V10 at a mesmarizing (sp?) 20,000 rpm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nX2L-kS7ZL8
Amazing stuff for sure.
And here is the sounds of a Renault V10 at a mesmarizing (sp?) 20,000 rpm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nX2L-kS7ZL8
#34
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,102
Likes: 11
From: Granger, Indiana
There is a SAE paper investigating how it is possible ( in the 70s) for the Japanese to manufacture motor cycle engines with just under 100 hp per liter and with total reliability.
At the same time, remember what Harley delivered in the 70s performance and quality wise......or the GM smog 350.....
(Not starting a ware here, I sold my 09 Ultra for the boating life style and I have owned a 73 Vette 350)
The conclusion in the SAE paper was, .......tolerances! No fancy alloys, bearing material or anything except exact tolerances.
Did I just do an ad for the custom built marine engines.....
At the same time, remember what Harley delivered in the 70s performance and quality wise......or the GM smog 350.....
(Not starting a ware here, I sold my 09 Ultra for the boating life style and I have owned a 73 Vette 350)
The conclusion in the SAE paper was, .......tolerances! No fancy alloys, bearing material or anything except exact tolerances.
Did I just do an ad for the custom built marine engines.....
However, I would just like to offer maybe somewhat of a different perspective - While I agree that tolerances are critical- they are only 1 input to the process. We need to assure that the “system” is capable of meeting and maintaining the tolerance of any part. For example, a machinist may be able to hold +/- 0.00001 for a given dimension – but the material itself may not have the structural integrity to maintain that critical tolerance is real-life usage. So just holding to a very strict tolerance does not assure that an item is really going to work or last- Yes, I would assume that a custom made engine has a better chance of success that an “off the shelf” item- because there is care in making and assembling the system. However, if the custom shop uses “shoddy” starting materials – it doesn’t matter how well it is machined or put together-- It’s not going to last very long.
Hope this makes sense??
#35
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Joined: Nov 2004
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From: On A Dirt Floor
^^^^Agree^^^^^
An everday, everyone drives one, example is 'how does an ECU know your engine has a cylinder misfire ?"
Most think, the ECU knows from the ignition itself.
Not many know, that most ECU's watch crank deflection/acceleration/deceleration for misfire.
Just think what the crank is doing during detonation ? Or when clutch is being dumped ? Or landing in a boat after being airborn.
So yes, materials and clearances are ultra important !
An everday, everyone drives one, example is 'how does an ECU know your engine has a cylinder misfire ?"
Most think, the ECU knows from the ignition itself.
Not many know, that most ECU's watch crank deflection/acceleration/deceleration for misfire.
Just think what the crank is doing during detonation ? Or when clutch is being dumped ? Or landing in a boat after being airborn.
So yes, materials and clearances are ultra important !
#36
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 116
Likes: 2
From: NW Indiana
those F1 engines use pneumatic valve control to open and close the valves at those speeds. Everything is super light in those engines, hence the ability to rev up and back down to idle so fast..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4Bm7BWIWpk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4Bm7BWIWpk
Last edited by downforce137; 03-18-2015 at 01:31 PM.
#38
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Joined: Nov 2004
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From: On A Dirt Floor
Yup. Freakin cold + windy here. Customer's went south or in hibernation.
Anybody want anything cyro'd ? We can just put your valvesprings outside. LOL.
Here is the weather just an hr North of me on top of our famous 'Rockpile'
Mount Washington Weather
Wednesday, March 18 2015 5:01 PM
Current Summit Conditions
Temperature: -13°F
Gust: 97 mph
Wind: 87 mph
Wind Chill: -57°F
Direction: 310°(NW)
Hourly Weather Observations (NWS)
Current Summit Forecast
A strong low over the Canadian Maritimes will bring continued summit fog and upslope snow showers through the day. Additionally, the low will continue to keep winds elevated with gusts reaching well over 100 mph today, tonight, and into early Thursday. Cold air will continue to flow in from the northwest keeping temperatures well below normal for mid-March. The high winds and cold temperatures will increase the risk of frostbite on exposed skin for most of the forecast period. Therefore, a wind chill warning will remain in place until early Friday morning. With severe conditions today through Thursday morning, hiking above tree line will be extremely risky. As a result of the high winds, summit staff will be unable to assist in any search and rescue should they arise. All efforts will be coming from below and will be slow going or possible postponed until safer conditions return for search parties. Hikers should be mindful that a single injury may keep them on the mountain for an extended period of time and will potentially put several lives at risk, not just their own in the coming days. Thursday afternoon will finally see gradually improving conditions as high pressure builds and with it, drier air. This drier air mass will move in from the west and allow fair skies to return over the summits for the afternoon and overnight hours. Thursday night into Friday, winds will finally dampen as the high starts to crest in and a light return flow allows temperatures to slowly start to rebound to more seasonable readings.
MORNING CONDITIONS
Temperature: -12 °F
Wind: 320°(NW) 90 mph
Weather: Fog, Light Snow, Blowing Snow
Visibility: 25 feet
Relative Humidity: 100%
Station Pressure: 23.06 inHg and steady
Ground Conditions: 18 inches Snow, ice, and rime w/ deeper drifts
YESTERDAY'S WEATHER
Max Temperature: 24°F
Min Temperature: -10°F
Peak Wind Gust: 350° (N) 124 mph
Avg Wind Speed: 53.8 mph
Liquid Precipitation: 0.53 inches
Snowfall: 3.9 inches
Wednesday:
In the clouds w/ snow showers and flurries likely. Possible additional snow accumulation of Trace to 2 inches.
High: Around 15 below
Wind: NW at 80-100 mph decreasing later to 70-90 mph w/ gusts up to 120 mph
Wind Chill: 60 below to 70 below
Wednesday Night:
In the clouds.
Low: Around 20 below
Wind: NW at 70-90 mph w/ gusts up to 105 mph
Wind Chill: 60 below to 70 below
Thursday:
In and out of the clouds trending towards clearing under partly sunny skies.
High: Rising to around 10 below in the afternoon
Wind: NW at 70-90 mph w/ gusts up to 100 mph decreasing later to 50-70 mph
Wind Chill: 60 below to 70 below rising to 50 below to 60 below
Thursday Night:
In the clear under partly cloudy skies.
Low: Around 10 below then rising to around 5 above late
Wind: NW shifting W at 50-70 mph decreasing to 25-40 mph
Wind Chill: 50 below to 60 below rising to 20 below to 30 below
Anybody want anything cyro'd ? We can just put your valvesprings outside. LOL.
Here is the weather just an hr North of me on top of our famous 'Rockpile'
Mount Washington Weather
Wednesday, March 18 2015 5:01 PM
Current Summit Conditions
Temperature: -13°F
Gust: 97 mph
Wind: 87 mph
Wind Chill: -57°F
Direction: 310°(NW)
Hourly Weather Observations (NWS)
Current Summit Forecast
A strong low over the Canadian Maritimes will bring continued summit fog and upslope snow showers through the day. Additionally, the low will continue to keep winds elevated with gusts reaching well over 100 mph today, tonight, and into early Thursday. Cold air will continue to flow in from the northwest keeping temperatures well below normal for mid-March. The high winds and cold temperatures will increase the risk of frostbite on exposed skin for most of the forecast period. Therefore, a wind chill warning will remain in place until early Friday morning. With severe conditions today through Thursday morning, hiking above tree line will be extremely risky. As a result of the high winds, summit staff will be unable to assist in any search and rescue should they arise. All efforts will be coming from below and will be slow going or possible postponed until safer conditions return for search parties. Hikers should be mindful that a single injury may keep them on the mountain for an extended period of time and will potentially put several lives at risk, not just their own in the coming days. Thursday afternoon will finally see gradually improving conditions as high pressure builds and with it, drier air. This drier air mass will move in from the west and allow fair skies to return over the summits for the afternoon and overnight hours. Thursday night into Friday, winds will finally dampen as the high starts to crest in and a light return flow allows temperatures to slowly start to rebound to more seasonable readings.
MORNING CONDITIONS
Temperature: -12 °F
Wind: 320°(NW) 90 mph
Weather: Fog, Light Snow, Blowing Snow
Visibility: 25 feet
Relative Humidity: 100%
Station Pressure: 23.06 inHg and steady
Ground Conditions: 18 inches Snow, ice, and rime w/ deeper drifts
YESTERDAY'S WEATHER
Max Temperature: 24°F
Min Temperature: -10°F
Peak Wind Gust: 350° (N) 124 mph
Avg Wind Speed: 53.8 mph
Liquid Precipitation: 0.53 inches
Snowfall: 3.9 inches
Wednesday:
In the clouds w/ snow showers and flurries likely. Possible additional snow accumulation of Trace to 2 inches.
High: Around 15 below
Wind: NW at 80-100 mph decreasing later to 70-90 mph w/ gusts up to 120 mph
Wind Chill: 60 below to 70 below
Wednesday Night:
In the clouds.
Low: Around 20 below
Wind: NW at 70-90 mph w/ gusts up to 105 mph
Wind Chill: 60 below to 70 below
Thursday:
In and out of the clouds trending towards clearing under partly sunny skies.
High: Rising to around 10 below in the afternoon
Wind: NW at 70-90 mph w/ gusts up to 100 mph decreasing later to 50-70 mph
Wind Chill: 60 below to 70 below rising to 50 below to 60 below
Thursday Night:
In the clear under partly cloudy skies.
Low: Around 10 below then rising to around 5 above late
Wind: NW shifting W at 50-70 mph decreasing to 25-40 mph
Wind Chill: 50 below to 60 below rising to 20 below to 30 below
Last edited by SB; 03-18-2015 at 04:16 PM.
#39
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,356
Likes: 1,515
From: NW Michigan
Pretty cool video. Must say a lot of things come to mind however what the red color lube that doesn't seem to brake down and remains consistent throughout the video. Cam lube? You'd think with the rpm and temps it would have dissolved.


