Scarab needs more speed
 

I have an 86' Scarab Panther, with 502's, 550hp each. Mark V, Merlin heads, Crane, etc. all the good stuff. Since I put the motors together I have had no running problems what so ever, and I hope to keep it that way (4yrs, and 250hrs).

The question I have is where do you think I can benefit and get more top end. The boat is set up with TRS drives and currently on 25 Mirage Plus' which top out at 5000 rpms. I have messed around with different props such as 25 mirage (5200 72mph), 25 mirage plus, 23Mirage plus (5600, 71mph) and a crappy set of 22 Michigan 4blades (67mph). Top speed on the boat has been a best of 76mph with the Mirage Plus'. The 25 mirage plus seem to be the best props for comfort, cruise (53mph) and stability. I havent tried a set of Labbed props, or Hydromotives, or Bravo ones? Has anyone had experience with these props on a TRS?

I installed nose cones, with no gain, actually lost 1-2 mph and about 100-200 rpm. I guess due to less slip? This year I also swithched the drives to have the props turn IN, instead of out. It seemed to cary the nose better and ride smoother with only a 1 mph gain.

Two years ago I took the hook out of the bottom. Picked up 3mph.

Yesterday I knocked those useless nose cones off, and have to test the boat again. I haven't tested the boat with the drive rotation switched and no nosecones. I am not optimistic though.

The boat just doesn't seem to want to go any faster. I have seen a lot of Panthers with the same set up running 80mph.

Anyone have any ideas?

You sure you have Mk5's? Boat surely had Mk4's in it originally. Not trying to be picky, but if folks recommend cam #s and stuff, they will differ for the two.

Mark V's
 

Audio,

Yes, they are Mark V's. I bought the new blocks and rotating assembly's new in 99'. No fuel pump boss, single rear main seal.

I'm not really into making any major changes with cam's, heads, etc. I am trying to make what I have the most efficient.

The motors run great, and I don't plan a rebuild for at least 2yrs. I just had the heads reworked over the winter. Typical maintenance stuff for a 250hr motor, with .610 lift. New Valves, seals, springs, milled the heads etc.

I guess what I am really looking for is some set-up info.

Would hydromotives work on a TRS, Bravo 1's etc? Anything, but tearing the motors open again.

I don't want to touch the motors till its time for a rebuild.

72 sounds about right for that hp and hull. I used to have one with 370hp motors and TRSs. It ran low to mid 60s.
About the only thing left would be to add extension boxes. But they're no longer available. I know of a couple 38 scarabs that gained 3-5mph by raising the drive height 1 to 2".
Gary

My top end is 76
 

Gary,

I must correct you, my best top end has been 76mph.

Thanks for the input though. 72mph was achieved with the 25 Mirage Props. I hit a top end of 76 with the Mirage Plus'. It carried the nose better. The regular Mirage always seemed to plow, and I had to trim it to the moon.

I agree about extension boxes, its just too much work, and too much money to dump into the boat I think.

Tonight I will find out if turning the drives inward, without the nose cones works better. i will keep you posted.

Has anyone had any experience using 4 blade hydromotive's, or bravo 1's on a TRS drive?

Panther,
Sounds like your doing pretty good then. Unless you add A LOT more hp, you may not see much of an increase.
Minimize the drag from the hull and drives. Lose some weight, or take stuff out of your boat, move the fuel tanks, batteries, etc all the heavy stuff to the rear. Recut your transom and raise the drives a couple inches.
BTW, I raised the drives 2" on a 38' staggered Scarab. But I had to move the fuel tanks back (added saddle tanks) and lighten the bow considerably for it to run right. I got over 5 mph with no hp increase and the boat ran much smoother.
Gary

I have a panther as well (88). I run 25p mirage (original). Most prop experts I've talked to say for general recreational use bravo 1s work great on boats like ours due to better stern lift (they recommend 24p.) Mind you, I have bravo drives, so this may not apply to you with your trs due to weight distribution factors? I've also been told labbing is not the best thing to do on these older, larger boats due to blade flex. They really can't thin them too much to achieve true labbing affects. This is all second hand, but I thought I'd pass it along anyway. I'd love to see a picture of your panther sometime.

BT :cool:

Here's a picutre
 

BT,
Here's a picture of the boat.

Sweeet Panther, Panther!!. I'm a big fan of these boats. It looks like it rides a tad bow high. A bravo prop may be the ticket for you.

BTW... How the hell did you get that pic display? When ever I try to put one up it says it exceeds the max alllowable byte size. Chit.. you got trees and everything going on there!! What am I doing wrong?

BT :cool:

Bow High
 

Thanks Blue Thunder,

That picture was taken in the NYC Poker Run. We were actucally comming off a wave, so that explains the bow high condition.

I have always had a problem with the boat plowing at high speed. The only thing that helped get the bow up was reversing the drives. I gained 1-2mph by doing that, but those nose cones were slowing me down. I knocked off the nose cones the other night and now I need to test again. I wanted to test last night, but I got held up a work. It looks like I am going to have to wait till the weekend.

With the drives turning in (raising the bow), I wonder if a Bravo would lift the stern as well. I think that would be ideal. I want to test the boat without the nosecones first to see what the difference is. Since I put the nosecones on, it felt like the stern was beeing sucked down into the water.

I may be dead wrong here and I know every boat acts different, but I was always under the impression that turning the props in creates stern lift and turning them out helps bow lift. At least my f311 behaved that way. I also dont think nose cones on a TRS are gonna be any help under 85 MPH and will probably hurt with positive trim. Still seems like that Panther should go faster with that kind of HP. Probably need to go to Bravo drives and check drive height to get any better now. I know Scarab3's take lots of HP to exceed 70. Have you weighed the boat?

Prop Rotation
 

There is a long article in Family Performance boating about prop rotation.

Inward rotation raises the bow (Port prop turning clockwise, Starbard turning Counter Clockwise).

The benefits are different for every boat. Some boats it can cause chine walking and instability.

Please contact Tyler Crockett @ 810-324-2720. He recently rigged a late model Scarab that set the B-Class kilo record at over 100 miles per hour! He definately knows the boat.

Panther,

Your boat looks great, one of my all time favorites!
I have a 88 28ft Scarab Excel with a single 520hp/ 502 running thru a newer Bravo. The boat runs 73+ Gps, not bad but always looking for more!
You mentioned that you had removed the hook from the hull and picked up three mph, did you do this work yourself??
I do have a little hook but have been hesitant to do anything with it.
How is the hook removed, fill the void or remove material from the tail???
Anyone else with experience in this area, please chime in!

I agree with everyone that you should be going faster with that power. I have a Scarab S-Type with 454/425's and I am running just as fast as you (or I was till I broke the good props).

All I can suggest is changing out the drives. Also, have you ever weighed your boat??? I have heard that soaking up water in the hull can weight it down.

Good looking boat. Good luck.

Hoook, and drives
 

Kaama,

Are you running Kaama Surface Drives? I remember looking at a panther that had Kaama's on it, but I didn't but it cause the parts for the drives were expensive. I also heard it is very hard to change the U-Joints, as the bellows is hard to work with? And also hard to find parts. I heard they are expensive also?

Tom,

Thanks, the boat was a long project. I did everything my self, except the upholstry. The hook wasn't very hard to take out, but it took a long time. It depends on how bad your hook is, if you need to fill it, or grind it.

Basically I would say if you take a straigt edge (3yrd straight edge) and lay it under the boat. If the distance is more than say 1/2" you gonna want to fill it in. Mine was borderline, but I wound up sanding it out. The transom of the boat is one of the thickest parts of the boat. A lot of overlapping of the matts. In my case I sanded down so far that I went thru the gel coat, and thru the outter matt. I got down to the pad that helps stop the print thru of the Roving. Once I got down to that I had to gouge it out and fill it back in so everthing was level. After is was straight, shoot it with Gel coat and I was done.

In your case, the boat is newer and may be made of Bi-Axial cloth and you may not run into the same problem I had. Have someone experienced look at the boat. Doing the work is not hard, although time consuming. You just don't want to cause yourself more problems. Filling it in rather than sanding it out is ther hardest way.

Yes, I have the surface drives, but I also have 125 fewer hp per side. (Wish I had 550's!!!)

As far as the drives go, talk to Brandon at Details Marine in OH (419-798-2628) or else Team Archer Marine in CA. Both can give good info on these drives. Brandon restores lots of boats this age, and I can tell you he will recommend either the Kaamas or Bravos for that boat.

BTW -- I pulled a drive a year or two ago, and the U-joints were WAY easier than working on a Bravo.

I agree
 

Kaama,
I agree that a Bravo will be faster on this boat. But the cost and time involved to upgrade a 1986 boat to bravo's is just not worth it. I plan on moving up in size shortly to a 36-38ft boat. I will get a boat with the new stuff then. I also see that they make a TRS to Bravo extension box, but the cost of the Bravos just don't make it a worth while investment for 5mph.

I appreciate your input, and you are correct. But for me that just doen't make sense. I think if the boat was the size boat that I wanted I would make the change.

I really just need to know what I can do with my current set-up to make it run better. I know of a guy near me who has one identical to mine and he runs 80. Although, he could be lying. We never did get to race. :confused:

I have a 1977 cigarette with trs drives. Gutted the boat kept
the trs drives use 26 pitch bravo I. Handles great I also flipped the drives hated the way it handled so i switched back. Don't know about the top end but the bravo I are the way to go.

No difference
 

Hello All,

Well I pulled of the nose cones last week, and tested the boat this weekend. No difference at all!!! As I thought it didn't make any difference. Looks like I am going to give tyler crockett a call, and see how he made an 87 Panther do 103mph.

panther,
i know this may be old technology but some guys, depending on setup still swear by trs cleavers for topend. holeshot is the tradeoff though because they slip a lot. but, i'm sure your aware that testing is key. nice looking boat by the way.


hi BT, :cool:

I wonder??
 

Hmmm,

I wonder what Dennis Moore has to say about the subject. Maybe he has some helpful info.

By the way, what a great mag.

Hi Excal... we ever gonna get together at Chesakpeake Inn? First round is on me remember.. :)

BT :cool:

BT, i'm bringing the "Total Eclipse" up from Wildwood in a couple weeks. I'll let you know when so we can set something up.:)